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Pet hates

Discussion in 'General' started by techneut, May 12, 2011.

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  1. richard66

    richard66 Richard Willmer Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Where I live they are a plague: Mozart's complete string quartets, Beethoven's complete sonatas and so on. I have not been to a concert in years!

    Maybe it is because the performer does not need to think. Alexander's programme and Eddy's future selection for a concert have this in common: you give thought to what you want to play, you try to match the pieces. I always believe in a "master programme", that is, a theme for the concert, this way one has a unity but in this unity, variety. I will give an example: Water. You create a programme that centers around music inspired by water, so, what do you have:

    Chopin: "Raindrop" Prelude
    Lizst: Les Jeux d'Eau à la Villa d'Este
    Ravel: Jeu d'Eaux
    Bortkiewicz: Etude "Fontaine Lumineuse"

    And so on.
     
    richard66, May 17, 2011
    #21
  2. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    That's a nice idea, Richard, but then you might have music that all sounds a bit similar. Water trickling, water running, water falling, water moving, water dripping, etc.... I think I would get very thirsty at this concert. :lol:
     
    pianolady, May 17, 2011
    #22
  3. richard66

    richard66 Richard Willmer Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Refreshments supplied at the end of the concert! :D
     
    richard66, May 17, 2011
    #23
  4. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    :lol: :lol:
     
    pianolady, May 17, 2011
    #24
  5. RSPIll

    RSPIll New Member

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    Either that or need to run to the bathroom a lot.
     
    RSPIll, May 18, 2011
    #25
  6. richard66

    richard66 Richard Willmer Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Will we need to provide nappies (diapers) too? :shock:
     
    richard66, May 18, 2011
    #26
  7. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    oh you guys....see what you started with your water concert, Richard? :lol:
     
    pianolady, May 18, 2011
    #27
  8. richard66

    richard66 Richard Willmer Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    You are the moderator! You should stop it before it gets that far! :oops:

    Anyway, it is better than quarelling about likes and dislikes.
     
    richard66, May 18, 2011
    #28
  9. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    I rarely stop a conversation that has strayed off topic unless there is some bad mud-slinging going on. And most often if the conversation has gone off-topic, it usually still involves music in some way. In that regard, and IMHO, any talk is better than no talk.

    But anyway, we are still on topic and not quarreling about anything. :)
     
    pianolady, May 19, 2011
    #29
  10. richard66

    richard66 Richard Willmer Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    I know, I was only half-serious there.

    I notice however that no one else, except for you, Eddy and I have given their list in response to Chris. There seems to be a major attack of shyness around.
     
    richard66, May 19, 2011
    #30
  11. andrew

    andrew Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist

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    In no particular order:

    Light vocal music
    Most of Mozart's piano music (give me Haydn any day)
    The Ode to Joy
    Most minimalism
    Lang Lang's mannerisms (and a fair bit of his playing)
    Alfred Brendel playing Liszt (bad tone, and a curiously pedantic attitude to textual fidelity for someone who is prone to simplifying the score - his scales (sic) in the 2nd Hungarian Rhapsody are particularly amusing)
    In particular Alfred Brendel playing the Wagner-Liszt Isolde's Liebestod which is imo musically appalling.
    Unadventurous concert programmes: do they really believe concertgoers think "YES! I must go and hear x for the 736th time"?
     
    andrew, May 19, 2011
    #31
  12. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Yes, Richard, there is a lot of shyness around here. I don't know why...

    Andrew, what makes Haydn much more appealing than Mozart?
    I'm curious because I have not played hardly any Haydn and I wonder what I am missing. Actually, I wouldn't even know where to start.
     
    pianolady, May 19, 2011
    #32
  13. andrew

    andrew Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist

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    Look at the F min variations. Terrific piece.

    I find Mozart sonatas have so "much composition by numbers". There's only so many Alberti basses, repeated I V I V cadences, scale figures that I can take. Plus I find Haydn more adventurous rhythmically and he has a sense of humour.

    Must slightly qualify/clarify one of my previous statements. I don't find the Wagner-Liszt Isolde's Liebestod musically appalling (in fact it's my favourite transcription), I find Brendel's recordings of it quite atrocious.
     
    andrew, May 20, 2011
    #33
  14. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Ok, thank you, I'll look at it as soon as I can.
     
    pianolady, May 20, 2011
    #34
  15. richard66

    richard66 Richard Willmer Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    I agree with you in part, in that I find Hadn quite different from Mozart and also being usually quite fun. I really need to dust my two volumes of Haydn. I also find his symphonies far superior to Mozart's.

    Do investigate him, Monica: you will be pleasantly surprised.

    The fact (at least I) one does not hear of Brendel playing that repertoire says worlds.
     
    richard66, May 20, 2011
    #35
  16. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    You know...I always felt that Mozart was the humorous one, but probably that's because I haven't listened to or played that much Haydn. Now that I think about it, there is that story about Haydn, when he was young, cutting off the ponytail of the boy sitting in front of him at choir practice. That tickles my funny bone...
     
    pianolady, May 20, 2011
    #36
  17. richard66

    richard66 Richard Willmer Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Apart from the overtly humorous pieces (A Musical Joke) I notice no humour in his compositions. Wit, yes, in the way he surprises by doing the unexpected (a socondary theme in the minor, for example). Haydn always has a joke to offer, such as a lyric melody played by the double-bass. Add to that that Mozart's best music is not in his sonatas or symphonies, but in his concerti. It is in the latter that his genius shines through. Out of his 19 sonatas how many are really rewarding to play? I would say 4 or 5.
     
    richard66, May 20, 2011
    #37
  18. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    I'm probably thinking about the way Mozart talks in his letters - that's why I think he is humorous. I know that has nothing to do with his music being humorous. Although, I probably do need music-humor lessons. Like besides a double bass playing a melody, which yes is a little funny, what else would be funny? I don't recall listening to something and saying to myself, "oh, haha that was so funny..."

    Can anyone give me more examples of humor in music? (and I don't mean Victor Borge type of stuff, I mean serious classical stuff...err..serious funny classical stuff) (does that make sense...?)
     
    pianolady, May 20, 2011
    #38
  19. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    I'm not sure I agree to that. Depends on one's sense of humor, probably.

    I don't know nearly enough of and about Haydn but from what I heard/read it would seem that he is the more quirky and humorous of the two. Does that make him the better composer ? I am not sure. If we need to compare the two at at all, that is. IMHO, humor in music is overrated. Personally I am a bit allergic to composers (well, people in general) who desire to be funny all the time. Goes with my morose character I guess :p

    But much of the best music is not particularly jocular. Think of Brahms, Bach, Rachmaninov, Chopin, Mahler, Tchaikovsky .... Given the choice I'd pick a serious work every time.

    Did you try them all ?
     
    techneut, May 20, 2011
    #39
  20. hanysz

    hanysz Member

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    The first thing that comes to my mind is Dohnanyi's Variations on a Nursery Theme for piano and orchestra. There are moments of humour in some of Shostakovich's preludes op 34, I'm thinking especially of the A flat and D flat preludes (although there are other pieces in the same set that are very black). And the fugue theme from his prelude and fugue in D. There's the ending of Rachmaninoff's Paganini rhapsody. Some of Brahms's Hungarian dances; I particularly like number 7. Debussy's Minstrels (preludes book 1 no. 12). The ending of Beethoven's op. 14 no. 2 second movement (not subtle, but I'm sure it was meant humourously). The Miniatures op. 62 of Theodore Kirchner. Poulenc's piano pieces are full of humour, although we don't hear them played very often (I remember Pascal Rogé giving a hilarious performance of the Soireés de Nazelles).

    And that's just solo piano music, not even getting into chamber or orchestral repertoire. If you investigate lieder and other art song, you'll find plenty of music based on not-so-serious texts. And of course opera.
     
    hanysz, May 21, 2011
    #40
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