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Beethoven Sonata opus 27 nr. 2, movement 1

Discussion in 'Submission Room' started by PJF, Jul 3, 2009.

  1. PJF

    PJF New Member Piano Society Artist

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    Hey everybody, long time no see.

    I've recovered fully from my back injury and am back at the piano.

    I recorded this (the lower file) at a decidedly fast tempo, on purpose. I think most people play and are used to hearing this in a much slower tempo. But Beethoven has it in cut-time, not 4/4 as I hear it played over and over again.

    I'm sorry I haven't had the time/energy to be more active in the forum these past months. I'll try to change that.

    Personally, I think the piece should be played as in the file "moonlightwash" with absolutely no pedal changes. But this is usually met with scoffs of disbelief. Just for fun, listen to it. Don't you think the clashing overtones paint a wonderful picture? Totally different than what is accepted as the norm but closer to what Beethoven intended, IMO. I just love the atonal, almost quartertonal, effect.

    As of now, I ask that the more conventional recording be added. Thanks.
     
  2. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Hey Pete, welcome back ! Now will you just for once take care of yourself and not sustain some or other injury for at least a couple of months ? I'm sure you can do it.

    But sorry, sheesh.. that washpedal version is really seriously awful. Rather than moonlight, it evokes vast, dank, dripping caverns... Did you put a ton of reverb on top of it all ? I'm pretty sure this is not what Beethoven may have had in mind... I did not like the way you speed up towards the end.

    Actually the 'conventional' version sounds rather cavernous too. If you added reverb here, seems like it is too much. It's also a bit bass-heavy. The playing is generally fine, though sometimes your RH is allmost inaudible for no good reason, and you have a tendency of fluctuating the tempo of your triplets rather randomly. Also you should have cut the beginning of the 2nd movement off the end - we can't have it on the site like this ! On the pro side, this is a very personal interpretation. Whatever else, it's certainly not boring.
     
  3. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Hi Pete - glad you are ok and back in action!

    This was fun listening to these two recordings. The moonlightwash was indeed very interesting. Hard to hear all the harmony changes though. But I think Beethoven noted the sustain pedal to be down throughout the entire piece, because his piano in his day did not sustain as long as our pianos do today? That's my theory - I'm no musicologist and probably this argument has been made before, dunno....And about the tempo change near the end - sounds like you had to suddenly get to the bathroom and so you had to hurry up and finish playing.:lol:

    Your other more conventional version - I agree with Chris that is also very 'reverby-sounding', although I do think it's kind of pretty that way. Like you're playing in some big old cathedral. And I do like your tempo here. I really don't like when people play slowly and one just wants to fall asleep. It's better this way.

    So, I guess you need to edit/cut out the end of the file first before it goes up.

    one more thing - your piano is off, mostly in the lower ranges. It's more noticeable in these reverby files.
     
  4. juufa72

    juufa72 New Member Piano Society Artist

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  5. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    This kind of posting is useless and actually considered 'not done' in most online communities.
    If you don't have anything to say, please do it elsewhere :wink:
     
  6. PJF

    PJF New Member Piano Society Artist

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    Ew, on a second listening, I don't like either of these. I didn't hear that bassy feedback for some reason.

    Please ignore both recordings. The moonlight wash was just a little experiment in excess.

    After mike and reverb readjustment, is this better?
     
  7. PJF

    PJF New Member Piano Society Artist

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    I agree.
     
  8. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Haha.. You're good at that are you not ? :p

    Soundwise, I think it is - but still pretty bass-heavy.
    However, this sounds impossibly hurried and impatient now :!:
     
  9. PJF

    PJF New Member Piano Society Artist

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    I don't understand why my recordings are coming out bass heavy all of a sudden. I've been away from the piano for about 6 months, maybe I just need to get myself together.

    I appreciate the feedback, and yes I'm a little self indulgent, maybe too much so. Maybe the performance is hurried because I feel hurried. I don't know what's wrong with my playing lately, I can't seem to coordinate my ears and my hands....I'm not doing it on purpose. I'll go meditate.
     
  10. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Yes, meditating may help :D
    OTOH, it may just be your recording setup or equalizing params. A simple bass filter could do it.
    Or, we just accept it as it is. Nothing wrong with a bass-heavy recording. I submit them all the time
    :lol:
     
  11. juufa72

    juufa72 New Member Piano Society Artist

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    Then how come others got away with posting an emoticon that was huge and animated? Aren't these simple ones enough? hahaha.


    Exactly what it means, pete. My face was in question when listening to your playing. I am plainspeaking when I say: bad, though it sounds "new", it does not do justice.
     
  12. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    I wasn't much in favor of that, either, being the grump that I am. But at least their meaning was pretty clear.
     
  13. Igor Utochkin

    Igor Utochkin New Member

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    Definetely, the faster version is better. And the tempo is not decidedly fast but normal for this movement.

    Triplets and melody are good and well-balanced (although some notes are hardly heard but I believe this is because of recording features) but the bass line is sometimes irregular and rough. Sometimes it sounds too loud and sometimes it almost disappears. It is especially noticeable in two-voice episodes in left hand.

    In addition I would like to tell a legend about this Adagio. When young Siloti had once heard Liszt playing Adagio sostenuto from Moonlight Sonata he decided that he wouln't never play it himself. And he also never gave it to his students. So, it is very difficult to play really good, maybe even more difficult than Presto agitato in some relation.
     
  14. ch_a

    ch_a New Member

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    During several months I wachted this forum, now I succeeded in joining it.

    Beethoven 27,2 mov1: alla breve and pedal - some comments:

    About 1993/94 Pollini gave a complete performance of the Beethoven sonatas where he played "moonlight1"alla breve and without pedal changes. In his recordings of the sonatas 2008 Andras Schiff played "moonlight1" also with pedal down (Informations from articles of the German weekly newspaper "Die Zeit"). I didn't hear any of those and I also didn't find any link to the recording of "PJF". I only know my own imperfect experiments with alla breve and pedal.

    The problem with the tempo may arise from a feeled discrepancy of "Adagio sostenuto" (slow) and "Alla breve" (fast). But the alla breve (with two beats per measure) is given by Beethoven and so it shoult be played not too slow. "sensa sordino" must be understood together with the pianos at Beethovens time "pianolady" mentioned allready. A problem by changing the pedal is the interrupt of the reverbation, pedal changes are not at constant intervalls, the reverbation between two changes does not rise to the same intensity.

    So far for today, I hope you understand what I mean

    Christiane
     
  15. Igor Utochkin

    Igor Utochkin New Member

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    Well, I decided to upload my own experiment in Adagio sostenuto. I think that special topic is unnecesary.

    Waiting for your critics.
    _______________________
    UPD: to avoid confusion I moved file to another topic
     
  16. PJF

    PJF New Member Piano Society Artist

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    I might be mistaken, but for the sake of preventing anarchy you should post your own recordings in separate topics in audition room.

    I'll wait to comment until you do that. (If one person does it and gets away with it, two days later---Lord of The Flies.) :lol:
     
  17. Igor Utochkin

    Igor Utochkin New Member

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    Ok, then I shall move my recording from this topic.
     

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