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Trills

Discussion in 'Technique' started by jesus_loves_u, Jun 12, 2006.

  1. jesus_loves_u

    jesus_loves_u New Member

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    How do you do trills like Vladimir Horowitz!!!!??? Omg
     
  2. robert

    robert New Member Piano Society Artist

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    Ask Cortot ;). Horowitz took lessons from Cortot because of his splendid double notes and trills. I was a bit suprised when I read that!
     
  3. jesus_loves_u

    jesus_loves_u New Member

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    Anybody know any trill exercises for fingers 4 and 5?
     
  4. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    trill exercise

    Well, one relatively difficult exercise you can try is to execute trills in 3rds. Start this exercise slowly until you feel comfortable, and very slowly proceed faster. Also try this in different rhythms for the sake of muscular development. Try this with fingers 4 and 5, then 3 and 4. Try doing this daily for a week. Then, go back and try performing regular trills slowly at first, and then gradually working your way up to speed. Also, make sure that you are using rotation in your forearm to give the trill momentum and energy. Hope this helps!!! I find trills to be oen of the most difficult techniques to master on piano....
     
  5. jesus_loves_u

    jesus_loves_u New Member

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    kewlios
    tnx
     
  6. ben

    ben New Member Piano Society Artist

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    Horowitz often accents the first one or two note of the trill and make the rest of the notes pianissimo.

    Remember, there is an optimum speed for trills, depending on the piano and the room. Usually people try to play them too quickly. Experiment with different speeds. Make sure the trill is perfectly even.
     
  7. jesus_loves_u

    jesus_loves_u New Member

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    fingers 2-3 good 4-5 good 3-4... ridiculous don't know how to practice those fingers =[
     
  8. jesus_loves_u

    jesus_loves_u New Member

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    do trills relatively go faster if you skahe your wrist?
     
  9. lol_nl

    lol_nl New Member

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    I don't think so, but they do go faster when you keep your wrist loose and move your fingers very fast.
     
  10. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    if you have good technique, meaning loose wrists and good fingers, you can do exercises on the lid of the piano or a table top
     
  11. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Yeah, only do excercises when you have a good technique :p :p :p
     
  12. lol_nl

    lol_nl New Member

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    Sure... and how to get a good technique :p :p :p?
     
  13. rachmaninoff

    rachmaninoff New Member Piano Society Artist

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    practice :p

    but what's a good technic? that's a better question I think
     
  14. lol_nl

    lol_nl New Member

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    A good technnique is knowing how to play how you want, how to play accurate, play fast, play good, play with nuances etc.
     
  15. rachmaninoff

    rachmaninoff New Member Piano Society Artist

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    play what you want? I think that only the profs can do that. I can't play rach 3 but do I have a bad technic? probably, I don't think it's good how should I practice on my technic?

    can somebody tell me that step by step?
     
  16. lol_nl

    lol_nl New Member

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    First of all, you should read Chang's book. Here is the link:
    http://members.aol.com/chang8828/contents.htm

    I'll try to get a start for you, in the way I think technique should be practised. Note that have a bad technique as well and I just think I know how to polish up technique, as my teacher told me and I've read from books etc. Maybe I'm very wrong, please correct me when I am wrong.
    Notice that this is MY way of thinking, people of another "school", way of practise, will disagree with me.

    1) Get the fundamentals. Practise VERY simple things, like just playing a C with only your thumb, a few times after each other. This sounds very easy, but the purpose is to control the tone just as how you want it to be. Especially playing with the fourth and fifth finger with control the tone is hard. Just try to play 2 notes with the same finger EXACTLY the same, difficult, eh? If you can do that, go on with exercises like 1-2-1-2, in the same way. Read this:
    http://members.aol.com/chang8828/exercises.htm
    And do the exercises he describes. Always try to control the tone and get it even. When you have mastered his exercises you have the needed fundamentals
    Note: practise them in the right way, notice that your wrists should be loose and relaxed, and you have to use the fingers seperately, and try to prevent cheating, like playing your 5th finger by turning your hand. There are many mistakes you make while doing this. Hand positions and movements are very important, and that's why you need a good teacher, so that s/he can point out all the mistakes you make.

    2) Do exercises. Don't just only play your pieces, but do exercises. Practise scales, arpeggios, etc. Whatever you can think of. You can practise Hanon, depending on whether you think it's useful or not. Practise these exercises good, so not mindless, thinking about your homework for tomorrow. Strive for accuracy, in the rhythm, in the tone, etc. Speed up, discover new hand motions for speeding up. Note that you should again be aware of the mistakes you can make (yes, piano playing is very much against the human intuition), as described above.
    I would suggest exercises in this order:

    1) Fundamentals (see above), Hanon 1-20 or 1-39 optional (depends whether you like him or not :p).
    2) Scales in major, first the ones beginning on white keys, then the ones beginning on black keys (or vice versa, whatever you want), start hands seperately, not too fast, then speed up, do both hands, in contrary motion (like both hands starting at middle C, then the right going up and the left down), etc.
    3) Scales in minor, first the ones beginning on white keys, then the ones beginning on black keys (or vice versa, whatever you want), start hands seperately, not too fast, then speed up, do both hands, in contrary motion.
    4) Chromatic Scale. Practise as other scales.
    5) Arpeggios "short broken", in all keys, major and minor. Start with short ones (e.g. C-E-G, E-G-c, G-c-e, etc.), then the longer ones (e.g. C-E-G-c, E-G-c-e, etc.). Note that the wrists must be loose, no tension, no pain after practising. First slowly HS, then speed up and HT. Also do in contrary motion.
    6) Arpeggios "long broken". Start with dominant septime (or whatever they call it) (e.g. C-E-G-B flat, c-e-g-b flat, etc.), then the longer ones (e.g. C-E-G, c-e-g, etc.). Note that the wrists must be loose, no tension, no pain after practising. First slowly HS, then speed up and HT. Also do in contrary motion.
    7) Additional exercises (optional). Many people think that scales and arps are everything you need, and the rest should be learned while practising new pieces, but if you want, you can think of many other exercises. There are many difficult things that you still can't play when you are able to play scales and arps. 2 against 3, 3 against 4, scales in thrids, scales in sixths, octave scales, tremolos, trills, repeating notes, are all examples of things you might not be able to play when you have mastered all scales and arpeggios. As for me, I think that these exercises are unnecessary and you can better learn new pieces and build up a repetoire instead. These techniques can be learnt when learning new pieces.

    That's my summary of how to practise technique. I do it this way, but only since a very short time, so my technique hasn't been completely polished yet, and it can be very frustrating sometimes, but now I have a whole vacation to practise, and I will practise at least an hour a day only on technique, and the rest of the time on pieces. I hope to improve my technique fast. Next year will be a tough year for me. I hope to be prepared for it, by practising a lot in the summer. Motivation is the only problem for me. It's summer and hot, all my friends are laying in the swimming pools. But I keep on practising, and hope to become a pianist some day. It seems all so far away, but time's going fast and I should not waste my time. Otherwise it will all be too late.
    I hope I didn't miss out anything :lol: . Plz correct me if I'm wrong.

    Hope this was useful :p . Good luck practising.
     
  17. rachmaninoff

    rachmaninoff New Member Piano Society Artist

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    thanks, but I am at an stage of conservatorium so the first things I don't think that I need to read them. I'm on my work so I don't have the time to read it I will do it when I'm home and post what I think about your way of thinking :)

    thanks.
     
  18. juufa72

    juufa72 New Member Piano Society Artist

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    It has been ages ever since I played on a real piano. So I forgot how it feels. My keyboard has semi-weighted keys and I notice that trilling is harder for me on this keyboard. But I forgot how it comes to me when I play on a real piano.

    My question: does the weight of the keys improve trilling? Does the weight you have to "defeat" actually aide in eveness and speed during a trill?

    Thanks
    -Jg
     
  19. PJF

    PJF New Member Piano Society Artist

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    Yes, the extra weight is to the triller's advantage, the weight causes the key to rebound from the keybed back up to the fingers. Most keyboards lack this quality.

    PETE
     

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