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Scriabin Etude op. 8 no. 2 Second Post

Discussion in 'Submission Room' started by camaysar, Jun 21, 2009.

  1. camaysar

    camaysar New Member

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  2. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    I have put this up, James.

    I've recently flirted a little bit with Scriabin myself, but with some easier preludes. I don't know this Etude; it sounds well-played to me, though.
     
  3. camaysar

    camaysar New Member

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    Thanks Monica,

    Your preludes are on my short list of posts to give a careful listen to, so stay tuned.. hehe! (It's the Felipe Syndrome)
     
  4. felipesarro

    felipesarro New Member

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    I really didn't get it.
    hehe

    the syndrome is... to select few posts to comment? because I don't comment all of them?
    hehe
     
  5. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    No, silly. It's because you giggle all the time. hehe
     
  6. camaysar

    camaysar New Member

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    I suspect that Felipe knew exactly what I meant, right Felipe? And then maybe not... it's so much a part of him (a charming part). Hahaha! (my syndrome)
     
  7. felipesarro

    felipesarro New Member

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    oh... :shock:

    you know... I always have "hehe" in the copy/paste of my computer, so writing becomes a lot faster.
    haha
     
  8. camaysar

    camaysar New Member

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    Funny! (Oh, so now you're a "haha" person! It must take some time to type that out without copy/paste!)
     
  9. toki

    toki New Member

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    Hi James,

    I like this piece a lot and actually have a recording of my own up here, as well. Hope you don't mind a couple of suggestions:

    In the first section, I play the sextuplets without pedal, with a little more staccato and a firm finish on the half note at the beginning of the next measure, but that's just something that I like to do based on a recording I heard by Horowitz several years ago. Some players like it, some don't, so you may or may not want to try for something like that. I definitely would suggest a little more ritardando and diminuendo in the last bar before the middle section, and really try to stress the last few notes with the legato/tenuto marks over them.

    Also, a few measures after that, during the section in D, you've got a five-over-three/four rhythm throughout. I think it would help if you kept the rhythm of the notes on top straight (i.e. less rubato on the 3rd note of each quintuplet) and brought the third and fifth note out more only in sound and not in rhythm. It helps that section to move along and build up to the big return of the first theme.

    I really like how you bring out the top notes in the last few measures, where the main theme returns in the major key. I use a little bit of soft pedal near the end to bring everything down, but that's kind of cheating.

    The left hand of this piece is a pain, but I think you play it really well. Very nice recording.
     
  10. camaysar

    camaysar New Member

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    Hi ?????

    Sorry it's taken me so long to reply... I was suddenly called out of the country for a few weeks, and not online. This is my first visit here in some time

    I'm at a bit of a disadvantage, as I don't know who you are, and so cannot know for sure which recording is yours. Based on your location, I'm going to guess that you are Tristan Hudson. If not, please correct me, so I can get a better perspective on your suggestions.

    I'm glad to hear your comments, as I have spent only a couple of weeks on the etude in question, so it has not really congealed yet as a more or less fixed interpretation, as fixed as an interpretation can be, anyway. I love it when pianists have a back-and-forth regarding interpretations, and love to learn from others, whoever they may be. So please don't feel that my criticisms of your playing are simply because you DARED to make suggestions to me :p In any case, I will include your own recording as illustrative of your post, and respond to both the post and recording.

    About the staccatos, your performance is one of the very few I have heard to really bring out the staccatos. I find it very difficult to execute. However, (and again, if you are not Tristan, please correct me!) I find your staccatos too dry sounding for the context. This is a good argument for using some pedal there, even if just a barely discernable haze. On the other hand, it may be the recording or your instrument, which does something of a disservice to this wonderfully pianistic piece. Is it a real piano, or electronic? There is an overall tinny sound that prevents Scriabin's music from achieving the grand effects he surely intended. It's not your fault for not being able to have a fine piano, but one's instrument is the voice of one's interpretation, and that can’t be helped. I add that I’m usually not pleased with any playing on most electric “keyboards” ... except for some large digital organs.

    I do agree with you that the staccatos should be more distinct, and it's something that most performers of this work overlook, so you are to be commended for paying attention to it.

    You tend to rush the second beat, then delay the third, so that it is difficult to sense a pulse. Your 32nd notes at the end of the 3rd beats in all measures where present are also somewhat dry and clipped sounding. Many pianists take the opposite approach and play them somewhere between 16ths and 32nds.... kind of like the last note of a 16th triplet. Your lack of pedal creates something of an aural "air pocket" there.

    [You may want to reconsider your pause before the 3rd beat of measure 3, which interrupts the “cascading” fall to the F sharp of m. 4}

    About the last bar before the middle section – I do rush the last 3 notes of the third beat. This aligns with your comment regarding more ritardando, and is probably the root of the problem. I’m fine, however, with the last tenuto notes in the right hand to which you referred. But I am not happy with the third beat at all.( In fact, this entire performance is really kind of unfinished, but gives my overall outlook.)

    You play that measure beautifully.

    I’d also wish for (in my performance) a softer beginning to the middle section, as you do so nicely. It’s so difficult to play such full, widely-spaced resonances softly! The key is controlling the pedal, I think, along with a super-controlled touch.

    About the 3rd and 5th notes in the D section – as musicusblau would say: “I did that on purpose”. I always felt that those notes were ripe for underlining, so I did consciously lean on them, as an expansion and continuation of the accented notes in the preceding measures, even though Scriabin did not indicate it. It’s a personal thing, and not guaranteed to please everyone – but it does please me very much, so what can I say? Maybe in the future I will decide that it should move more, but at this point, it’s ok as it is.

    But you are right on if your criticism is applied to the last D major measure of the passage, (before the measure that leads to the return), which is a bit sluggish. I was always dissatisfied with it on that count.

    In fact, your comments generally reinforce my feelings about waiting until a piece is well-learned before posting it here, or anywhere.

    I think you do not emphasize the 3rd (accented) notes enough (in the modulatory measures before the D section), but do like the way you shape the passage, and you make a really nice return to the theme.

    Thanks for noticing the top notes in the F# major “codetta”!!

    Why do you think using the soft pedal is “cheating”?? I love how you “bring everything down”. It was a wise choice to use it!

    Three measures before the double bar, the 3rd note of the 2nd beat is an E sharp, not E natural.

    Your criticisms have helped to bring into focus some of the things to work on in my playing of this piece. I hope my criticism of yours has done the same!

    By the way, have you listened to Joshua Hillman’s fine recording on this site? What wonderful playing! He really makes the piece his own, and makes my performance sound like lumpy gravy! It is yet another reminder of how many talented musicians there are in the world who do not have a widely recognized name.

    Best,

    James
     

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