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Schubert - Winterreise - Der Leiermann

Discussion in 'Submission Room' started by Didier, Nov 23, 2009.

  1. Didier

    Didier Member Piano Society Artist

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    Hello,

    One can play together the piano part and the song part of this song, the last one of the song cycle Winterreise from Schubert. What I did. The words, missing here, are from Wilhelm Müller:

    Der Leiermann
    The organ-grinder


    Drüben hinterm Dorfe steht ein Leiermann
    There outside the village stands an organ-grinder,

    Und mit starren Fingern dreht er was er kann.
    And with numb fingers he plays as best he can.

    Barfuß auf dem Eise wankt er hin und her
    Barefoot on the ice, he sways to and fro,

    Und sein kleiner Teller bleibt ihm immer leer.
    And his small plate is always empty.

    Keiner mag ihn hören, keiner sieht ihn an,
    No one wants to hear him, no one looks at him,

    Und die Hunde knurren um den alten Mann.
    And the dogs snarl all around the old man.

    Und er läßt es gehen, alles wie es will,
    And he lets it all go by, everything as it will,

    Dreht, und seine Leier steht ihm nimmer still.
    He plays, and never is his barel-organ still.

    Wunderlicher Alter, soll ich mit dir geh’n?
    Strange old man, shall I go with you?

    Willst zu meinen Liedern deine Leier dreh’n?
    Will you turn your organ to my songs?



    Schubert - Winterreise, Op. 89, D. 911: No. 24 "Der Leiermann"
     
  2. JohnAnderson

    JohnAnderson New Member

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    Hi Didier!

    It sounds great! But we don't get to hear you sing?! :wink:

    Is this your new mic? It sounds really great to me in any case. Musically speaking, the only thing I'd suggest is being careful at the points where there is a dotted rhythm, as it seems to me you possibly anticipate it a little bit. There are also maybe places you can breath a little between the drone chords in the bass, to add more variety and expression. Anyway, it's an enchanting recording!

    Thanks,
    John
     
  3. Didier

    Didier Member Piano Society Artist

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    Hi John!

    Thank you for your listening. I would like to sing but

    1) I don't have a voice of lied singer,
    2) I've currently a bad cold,
    3) I play the transposition in G from the original A. G is the usual tonality for baritones in this lied, like in the famous recordings from Dietriech Fischer-Dieskau or nowadays from Matthias Görne (his name is written Goerne on his most recent recordings, for instance the live Winterreise at Wigmore Hall in 2004 with Alfred brendel, a superb one). The historical recording from Hans Hotter is in F. I play in G because I have a project for accompanying a true baritone, who asked me for this tonality, in a private event. But G is too low for my 'baritone' voice and too high for my 'tenor' voice. The original A version for tenor would be OK to me for singing at the lower octave. But OK only to me...
    4) My voice is not powerful enough for being recorded while I play. Then even with the lips on the mic, there is too much piano sound leakage. :(

    I acknowledge that the rhythm is not yet fully accurate here and there. Chris will repeat that I should play Bach...

    New mic not yet arrived. (The gold plating process is long, because of the thickness? :wink: ) I used the same ones like your ones. Cardio, 19 cm AB, 1.6m height, 20 cm horizontal distance from the piano rim in the curve. I process a bit differently the sung parts for more presence and more proximity feeling (+3 dB at 10 kHz and different reverb).

    Cheers,

    Didier
     
  4. Didier

    Didier Member Piano Society Artist

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    I made a new take on this evening. IMO, it's better.
     
  5. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Hi Didier,

    That's a very nice arrangement you've made, and very well played too. Thanks for posting it.

    David
     
  6. JohnAnderson

    JohnAnderson New Member

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    Hi Didier,

    Haha, I thought maybe they were the Fleas... Explains why I like it so much! Looking forward to hearing your new mic when it arrives though (as soon as they finish applying all those layers of gold!).

    I like your new version - I think there is more dynamic contrast and better control. I think you solved the issue. I don't really think any issues with rhythm are necessarily the result of technique (although just naturalness with the keyboard helps of course), and so maybe Bach would help, maybe not. There are a several "breaths" that are beautifully articulated in this version, something I'm sure that you do naturally - they serve to give meaning to the rhythm. As long as one keeps looking to make the rhythm serve oneself, rather than the other way around, I think that gives control over the piece. Playing like a metronome is never the issue, or solution. Anyway this time your dotted rhythms are not anticipated, and the expectation that they create for resolution is very convincing, well done.

    Hope you get over your cold soon. Then maybe you could track the vocal line over the recording and we could hear you sing! Do some of your audio wizardry on the part and tune it up! Would be pretty cool. I bet the Fleas would be just as good for it too! Personally, I wouldn't be able to sing a line to save my life...

    By the way, like the reverb - very dark and well suited to this piece. Still don't know how you do that with a plugin, is it mainly just a question of EQing it?
     
  7. Didier

    Didier Member Piano Society Artist

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    David, thank you much for your listening and your kind words. :)

    John, for the reverberation: IR Bricasti Berlin with RT reduced to 1.5s, size and density multiplied by 2 (approximately). Predelay = 0 on the sung parts, 30 ms otherwise. + 3 dB above 7 kHz on the sung parts, it does not change the loudness more than a few tenth of dB but it gives more presence because of the brighter timbre. That's it. :wink:
     
  8. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    The first version was good but the second is fantastic ! Great sound, great playing. You have something special with Schubert, it seems. If there are more items from Winterreise or his other song cycles that lend itself to such an arrangement, please do them !
     
  9. JohnAnderson

    JohnAnderson New Member

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    That's very clever, when I have the occasion I'm going to try that!
     
  10. Didier

    Didier Member Piano Society Artist

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    Fantastic, Chris, you said fantastic? That's fantastic! :p

    Yes I love Schubert. I shall have already reported here this that I am not the author of but that sounds so right to me:

    Bach talks to God,
    Beethoven talks to the Humanity,
    Mozart talks about our Society,

    and

    Schubert talks to me.

    Other Schubert lieds ? Not before completing my current Bach work. Talking to God is a tough job... :roll:
     
  11. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    This is up, Didier. Sounded nice to me - I like the mood of this one.
     
  12. alf

    alf Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Beautiful Didier, both the interpretation and (ça va sans dire) the sound. By the way, do you know the Liszt transcription of Der Leiermann? It's very easy and almost literal (and just one stanza, of course), you may be interested in having a quick look at it and perhaps experimenting a bit with the superb colours of your grand.
     
  13. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Hi Didier,
    what a beautiful and sensitive performance! I could listen again and again to it, so much do I enjoy it!
    You play it thoroughly nice. There is only one matter I have to remark: you always play the rhythm eigth + sixteenth+ sixteenth break too fast (like in bar 4, 5, 7, 8 and at all similar places in that song).
    Your voicing is very good and the dynamic shaping is full of sensitive nuances.
    And what a splendid sound-quality. I do listen to it with very good loudspeakers by "Myro" (an eastern german quite unknown brand of high-end-loudspeakers).

    Thank you for sharing this little gem. You could play more of the "Winterreise". (Btw, I do analyze that song at school from time to time like some other songs of the "Winterreise".)
     
  14. Didier

    Didier Member Piano Society Artist

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    Thank you Monica for your care.

    Alfonso, I was wondering whether a transcription from Liszt would exist for this lieder like for Ständchen, Erlkönig etc. So your information is of great interest to me. What I played is not really an arrangement, just transposing in G as usual for baritone accompaniment and adding the sung melody at right hand. I guess that Liszt did a bit more. I will certainly look at it.

    Andreas, I'm happy that you found the sound so good. I used a jewel in my microphone collection, a pair of FLEA 49, hand-made copies of M49, a famous tube microphone discontinued by Neumann in the early 70s. I also used them for the Hungarian Melody D817 and for the first movement of the Beethoven's op 14 no. 2, recordings available from Pianosociety. But the sound merit shall be given to Steingraeber first. With a so good piano, there is no need for so extraordinary mics for achieving excellent sound.

    I'm a bit annoyed by you remark about bars 4,5, 7,8 because theses bars were indeed wrong in my first recording and I thought that I succeeded to make them right in the second one...
     
  15. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Didier wrote:
    Thank you for these interesting information. Must be a true treasure, this FLEA 49, but you are right, your piano is really very good. That´s why it deserves a very good recording-equipment and an expert in these matters like you are.

    I´m very sorry, that you are a bit annoyed, but this special rhyhtm still is wrong and it´s clearly audible (especially if someone knows this piece by heart so well like me, one notices immediately, that there is a sudden rushing up, like a little hiccup). You know, I´m just trying to help you. But you are making big progress in summary. It´s only this little rhythm yet, all the other things are proper. (In most of your former recordings there were much more things, I had to mention.) So have my sincere congratulations and continue so, dear friend!
     
  16. Didier

    Didier Member Piano Society Artist

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    You shall not be sorry Andreas. I'm now convinced that these bars are not well in place. Thank you again for your help. :)
     
  17. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    My pleasure, Didier! I´m looking forward to your next recording! :)
     
  18. Didier

    Didier Member Piano Society Artist

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    Hi,

    this is not my future next recording of this piece, which I will do certainly. I just propose it for sharing with PS members, not for being put on the site. I recorded the piano solo part, send the recording to the baritone singer with whom I shall hopefully play this piece on some day and he recorded the voice part by listening to the piano part with HEADphones. Then I mixed both takes. I hope that you will enjoy it.

    Didier
     
  19. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    A beautiful partnership, even if not all the attacks are stop-on together. Great singer too (I thought you somehow had dubbed with Quasthoff... ). If he is French, his German diction is excellent. I hope you'll get to perform this with him in the flesh. A friend of yours, or just someone you approached with the request ?
     
  20. Didier

    Didier Member Piano Society Artist

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    Thank you Chris for your kind words. Yes, he is French. I guess that he would be much delighted by your comparison with Quasthoff. I did not yet meet him otherwise than virtually on an forum dedicated to audio.
     

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