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Schubert, Hungarian Melody D. 817

Discussion in 'Submission Room' started by Didier, Jul 19, 2009.

  1. Didier

    Didier Member Piano Society Artist

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    Hello,

    I started this one more than 1 year ago. I shall still improve it but now I cannot continue with this piece any longer. I hope that it can be accepted as it is. :?:
    Thank you for your indulgence. :)

    EDIT: unvalid version removed.
     
  2. juufa72

    juufa72 New Member Piano Society Artist

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    I never heard this before, but it sounds good to me. Thanks for sharing a pleasant tune.
     
  3. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist

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    I like this piece and followed along with the score. I think for the most part, you played it well, Didier. Some of the groups of legato thirds sounded a little strained to me, though. But my main concern is the way you slowed down so much at the end. I see no markings for this and to me it really does not work. Yes, it says 'dolce' but that's it. I think you should keep the same tempo all the way to the end.
    Maybe you know something about this piece that I don't, so please tell me if I am incorrect about this.
     
  4. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    I don't know this piece and did not follow with the score so I can't comment on slips or misreadings It sounded pretty accurate to me. It seems to me your rhythmic stability has improved some since your last Schubert submission. But we're not there yet, you really struggle in the middle section (that sounds not at all easy btw). As Monica noted, thirds are not your forte as yet, most or all sound uneven. And Schubert is real fond of thirds.... Maybe you should spend some time on thirds (Bartok's Mikrokosmos has some great study material for thirds).

    On the plus side, we have wonderful sound, a real Hungarian feeling, and a certain artistic liberty. Not sure I agree with your huge ritenuto for the ending, but it sounds good. I think this recording, despite its obvious flaws, can go up on the site, and can be enjoyed by many as honest effort (as well as work in progress :wink: )
     
  5. Didier

    Didier Member Piano Society Artist

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    Thank you juufa, Monica and Chris for your kind comments. I was well conscious about the strained thirds, especially the last ones on page 2 on which I spend all my Saturday evening... It was a kind of psychological barrier, I think, because they are not the most difficult one in this piece. I did not realize before that I was facing some difficulty here. Curious...
    It was a bit better on Sunday morning.

    Now, the slow end... :oops:
    Note a choice. Only not assimilated enough, not printed in the fingers. I wanted to submit this piece before leaving tomorrow, coming backs at home on next week for a few days that should be very busy, before leaving again for 2 vacation weeks. So at best I will be able to record again this end at a more suitable tempo by the end of August. I intend to improve the whole piece but will need much more time to get it.

    About the sound: I found a beautiful reverb as free impulse responses (IR) from a professional digital reverberation processor, the Bricasti M7: http://www.acousticas.net/World/IRs/AcousticasM7.zip. It's also available in a still more sophisticated form, 2 different stereo files for processing the left and right channel, from http://www.rhythminmind.net/presetblog/category/samples/impulse-sets/. For using these IR, one need a plugin like SIR, a free version of which is available from http://www.knufinke.de/sir/sir1.html, and an audio editor compatible with such a plugin. I think that Audacity is. Take care: this is not the simplest solution for adding reverb but the result sounds especially good. As good, according to some tests, as from the true Bricasti that costs more than 3000$. I used the IR named Music Room. There are also Amsterdam, Berlin and Vienne halls... :roll: (I don't play yet good enough for using these ones.)
     
  6. 88man

    88man Member Piano Society Artist

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    Very nice, Didier. For me, playing the thirds fortissimo and lifting the fingers high while practicing helps to strengthen your technique for thirds - hey, thirds are my Achilles heel. As far as sound, I like the balance you've achieved in this recording.

    Didier wrote:
    IMHO, the Bricasti M7 is the finest and most realistic reverb unit for classical music, but at a premium price. It doesn't produce harsh reverb tails like software based reverbs, nor does it muffle the details, even if you extend it to 30 seconds. It's even better than convolution reverbs.
    I made a deal with Casey, one of two innovators of Bricasti - If I buy the M7, he's going to come to my studio and personally show me the intricacies of the machine in my setup, and he's going to throw in an extra digital XLR/SPDIF converters. The company is local. I'll probably give him a case of beer for his time (he doesn't know that). But, seriously, those guys KNOW reverb and their algorithm is the finest in the industry!
     
  7. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist

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    Hi Didier,
    this is still a quite nice performance of this little gem. I followed along with score and I just have to add two points to the problem of the thirds in your right hand, which Monica and Chris still have pointed out. You sometimes drop also the minor- or major-third in the chords of the accompaniment in the left hand, f. ex. at the beginning (d) and at the end of part one (a flat), but also at some places in the second part. At the end you become slower and slower, but the diminuendo refers only to the dynamic, not to the tempo, so there is nothing said of a long ritardando or something similar in the score. At least you should hold the tempo of the beginning until nearly the last bar, I think, then you could make a little rit. at the end. But may be this is intended as an artistic liberty by you?

    Thank you very much for the links above! I´ll try the new reverberation out, when I do my next recording. Do you think, it works with Wavelab?

    Congratulations to your nice performance, which is played very sensitively and musically as we are used from you. The sound-quality really is overwhelming!
     
  8. Didier

    Didier Member Piano Society Artist

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    Hi Andreas,

    thank you for your careful listening. Yes this is far from being perfect, only my best today. I will pay more attention to hit all the notes at LH when I will work again this piece.

    You can use any VST or DirectX plugin with Wavelab. The IRs of which I gave the links are not plugins, they are wav files to be used with a convolution reverberation plugin like SIR. I saw in the recent topic A liittle test from Monica that you was using plugins from Waves, who is proposing IR1 full, which accepts twin-stereo IRs.

    I registered again the last page. I think it's better.

    Schubert - Hungarian Melody in B minor, D817 ( 3:38 )
     
  9. juufa72

    juufa72 New Member Piano Society Artist

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    I like this one better.
     
  10. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Yes this is indeed better. A couple of technical issues do not really distract from what is otherwise a nice performance - and it has the benefit of great sound of course. I will proceed to put this one up on the site (unless Monica gets there first).

    It seems to me that you have improved your rhythmic stability, Didier. It's far from optimal yet but much better than in your first Schubert recording, which I remember well because I bashed it to bits :wink: Keep up the good work ! And play Bach ! Oops, did I say this already ?
     
  11. Didier

    Didier Member Piano Society Artist

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    Yes, several times! At the end, you might convince me. :wink:
     
  12. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    In the end, you'll do it just to shut me up :p

    No kidding, it really helps, better than anything else.
     
  13. Didier

    Didier Member Piano Society Artist

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    Hi Chris,

    the version on the site was the first one in this topic with the slow end, that I just removed. Please, could you replace it by the second one still available from here?

    I acknowledge that I would have made your task easier if I would have submit only the right one. :?

    Cheers,

    Didier
     
  14. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Oh, I did not realize you had redone this one. I have replaced it.
     
  15. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist

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    Didier wrote:
    Could you explain me, please, what is "IR1 full" and "twin-stereo IRs" and what steps I have to do to use these plug-ins. I wanted to use them still for the four-hands-recordings by Chris and me, but I wasn´t successfull to get them into WaveLab somehow. So I don´t know, how to use them. I have downloaded all from the links you gave us.

    To your second version:
    You still leave out sometimes the upper note of the chords in the left hand. Do you have another edition than me? (I have the E. St.) For example at the beginning there is missing always the d in the LH. Sometimes this falsifies a bit the composition, because very often it is the glowing third you leave out.
    Also the thirds in the RH could be improved here and there. But I have to say the rhythmic steadiness in the first part is quite good.
    Especially in bar 43 of part two (if I have counted correctly), where is the b-major-chord in the LH, the third you leave out is so important for the structure of the composition (because of the sudden change from minor to major). The "Septolen" are a bit unexact.
    You begin the ritardando very early, nearly three complete systems before end. For me the last three or four bars would be enough for a final ritardando.
    All in all the rhythmic steadiness has improved a lot!

    Your expression is so beautiful as always. I love to listen to your sensitive and musical playing!
     
  16. Didier

    Didier Member Piano Society Artist

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    Hi Andreas,

    thank you for listening again this recording. I have the Henle score, which seems being the same like your one. I shall work again the LH, the RH thirds and the end. :oops:
     
  17. Didier

    Didier Member Piano Society Artist

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    An IR (impulse response) is a wav, or possibly another audio format, file. It is used by a plugin for adding reverberation to a recording by means of a mathematical operation combining both audio files, the IR and the recording, named convolution.
    So you cannot use the Bricasti IRs without a convolution plugin. You have to put the wav IRs in a directory on your computer and load the one you want to use from the convolution plugin. True stereo IR is a set of two stereo IRs, one being used for generating L and R reverberation from the recording L channel, and the other one being combined the same with the recording R channel.
     
  18. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist

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    I have put the SIR_1011.dll into the VST-plugin-folder of WaveLab and it´s fantastic! I have all the different halls, spaces, rooms of Bricasti M7 now. I think this SIR must be this convolution plugin, isn´t it?
    Thank you so much for these valuable links, Didier, which opens a complete new world of different reverberation- and ambience-settings. I´m actually listening to our Mozart-four-hands with Worchester-Hall-reverberation. I like this setting, but there are tons of others to discover. That´s so inspiring!
    You deserve thousands of bottles of wine for this valuable advice and these links, Didier :!: (Alas, I haven´t so much at home. :wink: ) [​IMG] It´s really amazing, that all this is freeware, isn´t it?
     
  19. Didier

    Didier Member Piano Society Artist

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    Yes.

    Yes it is. The release of the IRs by both sources of which I gave the links was approved by Bricasti. Take care on not putting reverb in excess.... :wink:

    Than you for the bottles. Your piano playing advices are much more worth to me. The few hundred bottles in the cellar located just under the floor at the piano place, with an air cooling device that is a bit noisy so that I must wait it stopping for recording, are enough to me. I stopped the whisky. I shall now reduce the wine, which is more difficult to me but absolutely mandatory for stabilizing, hopefully decreasing, my weight... :cry:
     
  20. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist

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    Didier wrote:
    I know this, I know this, Didier. I have totally stopped the wine, but now I really have to stop the beer. though I even have reduced it...
     

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