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Regression

Discussion in 'Technique' started by techneut, Oct 24, 2006.

  1. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Just wondering if some of you had the same experience.

    You are happily practising a piece, several times a day, and suddenly there is this one bar, which never gave a problem so far, turning into a stumbling block without any apparent reason (nothing changed in the fingering, execution or speed, nothing at all). I've had this on a couple of occasions, and it puzzles me why it should happen. Seems like regress instead of progress.

    Does this ring any bells or is it just me going senile ?
     
  2. rachmaninoff

    rachmaninoff New Member Piano Society Artist

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    I had that often. sometimes it is just a technic or you think that you can't do it. If you try to play it in chords or someting most times it will work!
     
  3. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    No it's not like that. It used to go just fine but for some reason I suddenly started mucking up the middle voice in the LH, and the RH follows in the misery. It is this passage from the A minor fugue of WTC 1. Not particularly difficult/complicated for this fugue, and I will sort it out soon enough. It just puzzles me why it should all of a sudden should start to fail. Perhaps some specific brain cells have died :wink:
     
  4. MindenBlues

    MindenBlues New Member Piano Society Artist

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    Sometimes it happens in my case that if I play a new piece with a similar pattern but different context as an already learned piece, that I errouneously fall in that different context also while playing the old learned piece. Then it happens that the spot with similar pattern which normally worked suddenly fails - the muscle memory was reprogrammed meanwhile.
     
  5. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist

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    Hmmm, that's a puzzler. All I can say, is that it happens to me all the time, but I'm not that great of a player so it doesn't surprise me. :) Once, when I had that Chopin Ballade finally learned, and after playing it a million times, a certain measure popped up where I made mistakes. In that certain case, I had the piece memorized, and had to get the score out again. What happened was that for some stupid reason, I changed the fingering, which of course made me slip up. So I slowly practiced with the right fingering and all was well after that.

    Since you didn't change the fingering, maybe your eyes are doing something funny? Are you sitting at the bench differently? Is there something else going on in the room? Have you tried circling the measure in a red pencil so you're ready for it? God, I hope it's not 'regress'. What an awful thing. That can't really happen, right? Maybe since you're so atune to that measure, your tensing up right when you get to it?

    Just some thoughts.
     
  6. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Nope, nothing special about that measure. There seems to be reason why it went ok for so long and then suddenly started to give problems. I guess all it needs is some extra attention and marking it is a good idea also. Always helps to be ready.
     
  7. PJF

    PJF New Member Piano Society Artist

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    Yes, this affliction is most frustrating. It happens to me at least once a week. Invaribly, the problem is excess mental and/or physical tension or fatigue. Either way, take a break when it happens. After a good break (an hour) practice the difficult spot away from the piano. Usually, I'll write the notes of the problem area and look for melodic, intervallic or harmonic patterns in regard to the piece as a whole.

    Pete
     
  8. robert

    robert New Member Piano Society Artist

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    I learned a seemingly stupid trick many years ago and that is to, in the score at this specific location, write something. Can be anything as a smiley but nothing to "score-common" as drawing a circle around it. The reason is that you need to find a new way to memorize it as probably, you muscle memory is not willing to learn the right pattern. Using a smiley inthe score willl trigger your sight memory instead and that memory might prove useful.

    I know you probably do not wish to draw anything in the score as you seem to collect and even sell them later on but you can do a copy right? Also, you complain that you a are a poor memorizer but one always memorize. That is why you get better a piece. You do not practise your muscles to do the job, you practise the brain. The only difference between you and me is that you stop memorize at a certain point as your brain get lazy as you can mind as well read it off the score. Try it!
     
  9. PJF

    PJF New Member Piano Society Artist

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    I thought I was the only one who covered his scores with smileys! You are right, Robert; it's a problem of acknowledgement.

    PF
     
  10. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    I used to be like that but nowadays I scribble freely in them, especially during lessons. Actually only sold some scores that I either did not use or had duplicate.
     
  11. PJF

    PJF New Member Piano Society Artist

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    Singing a problem passage helps.

    You could try playing it in different keys or with a different rhythmic pattern, anything to avoid monotony.

    I bet biorhythm is a factor, too. I noticed a pattern in my journal; my practice and progress go in 22-day cycles. Eleven days up and eleven days down.

    PF
     
  12. johnmar78

    johnmar78 New Member Piano Society Artist

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    muscle memory lap..tthats your weak spot, so next time when you go back again, start that section first.

    this is what I do, photo copy the originals out of my own and work on two pages and mark as much as you like. After so many reps. it should be memorised. and i start to go on next two pages.......

    at the same time your original scores stays as new :lol:
     
  13. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    probably just memory slips which though inconvenient keeps you honest
     
  14. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Well whatever it was, I got that bar sorted out now. No more problems.
    Thanks for all the ideas though !
     
  15. PJF

    PJF New Member Piano Society Artist

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    Every single piece I ever learned is in a state of profound regression. Nothing makes any sense anymore. How the hell do I get that spark back? Time and hard work, perhaps?
     
  16. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    MEGA BUMP :lol:
    Seems like you suffer from a lack of motivation. Hanging around in PS may help. Worked for me.....
     
  17. PJF

    PJF New Member Piano Society Artist

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    I already have a plan to get my house in order. This place is a big part of it!
     

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