Thank you to those who donated to Piano Society in 2017.

Rare music of Eduardo Dutra: Preludio, Op. 32 in F#m

Discussion in 'Submission Room' started by Rachfan, Jan 24, 2011.

  1. richard66

    richard66 Richard Willmer Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,084
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Amateur musician
    Home Page:
    Now, tell us, Luis: do you not think this "Mariangela" is someone who does not exist, a "malandro"? I am sure that who wrote all that is not Brazilian, because that is just not the way a Brazilian would write.
     
  2. luissarro

    luissarro New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2012
    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Brazil
    Home Page:
    Sorry, where is this "Mariângela"?

    I only saw Mônica Vasconselos' article on BBC website.
     
  3. richard66

    richard66 Richard Willmer Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,084
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Amateur musician
    Home Page:
    Read these two posts, Luis: the earlier (the first) one is a bit different from the later (second) one. Notice the names: HENRY Oswald, for example.
    I asked a conductor from Sao Paulo to look into Eduardo Dutra. The good thing is that he knows people who knew Dick Farney. Let us hope.
     
  4. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    Messages:
    9,927
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Last Name:
    Breemer
    First Name:
    Chris
    Is Dutra so important a composer that we should go this length ? Did he actually compose anything else besides this work (which sounds suspiciously like a piece by some Russian composer) ? The opus number suggests so but I'm starting to feel like this whole Dutra thing is a scam.
    No composer can be so obscure that only his Op.32 is known to the world. Either the rest doesn't exist or it is too bad to be remembered.
     
  5. richard66

    richard66 Richard Willmer Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,084
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Amateur musician
    Home Page:
    The point is another, Chris, and by this time has little to do with the merits or demerits of this composer. I do not like scammers and I would like to see this one exposed. Besides all that, I am not taking too much trouble about it, but since the condictor was here and I was giving him assistance... Why not ask?
     
  6. luissarro

    luissarro New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2012
    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Brazil
    Home Page:
    So you think this Mariângela could be cheating us? Is she Brazilian?
    You're right, it's difficult to imagine a Brazilian writing HENRY Oswald. Henrique Oswald is such an important composer, and well known, and name translations is usually not done any more (in the past, almost one century ago, Brazilian scholars would write Luís de Beethoven, João Sebastião Bach, José Haydn...). How old is Mariângela?

    I had already asked some people in my college who work with Brazilian music. They don't know Eduardo Dutra.
    The other problem is that Dutra is a common last name, so there are LOTS OF Eduard Dutras.

    But there are things that are in common in these two texts. Did Mariângela write both of them?
     
  7. richard66

    richard66 Richard Willmer Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,084
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Amateur musician
    Home Page:
    João Sebastião Bach? :shock: How dare you? :x João Sebastião RIBEIRO, if you please! :D

    As for the other questions, no one knows the answers.
     
  8. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,152
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Chief Operating Officer, retired
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    Last Name:
    April
    First Name:
    David
    Until now I've been silent on the Eduardo Dutra mystery. But now I'll add my two cents worth or conjecture. First, the handwritten inscription on the front cover of the "Preludio", Op. 32 to Neusa Franca signed by Dutra proves, for me at least, that he was a real person. I believe that Dutra's career was his laboratory business but that he also had an intense interest in composing. It's even possible he was able to have some of his music heard in recitals and concerts, although we've seen no printed programs or newspaper clippings that would verify that as fact. I do not doubt that he might have known some important and influential composers, musicians, artists and authors, and might have hosted them at soirees in his home from time to time. We know that he reprinted his own music, possibly because it was his preference, or that his music was not accepted and published as commercial sheet music. There is no doubt that Farnesio, his son, became Dick Farney, a well-known pianist and "crooner" who can be seen performing in several videos at YouTube. I recall in Rubinstein's autobiography My Young Years that he was a friend of Villa Lobos and his family, but I don't remember any reference to Eduardo Dutra.

    When Dutra died, probably his wife, Iracema da Silva, might have stored his scores at their home. Where they were private and not published scores, perhaps libraries and archives would not accept them into their collections. When Iracema died, most likely Farnesio had the responsibility and burden of closing the Dutra estate. If there was a will, he probably distributed any bequests accordingly. As for the scores, where "Dick Farney" was into popular music, maybe he didn't share his father's enthusiasm for classical music, did not see value in them from his perspective, so disposed of those scores or at best put them in an attic. That would explain why they no longer seem to be extant.

    As for Mariangela, she has mentioned numerous titles of Dutra's piano pieces especially that pique our curiosity, but she has never said where the sheet music may be found in this day and age. I speculate the reason is that she simply doesn't know so cannot be helpful in that regard.

    That's my theory.

    David
     
  9. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    Messages:
    9,927
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Last Name:
    Breemer
    First Name:
    Chris
    Interesting theory. If true, it is a sad story, that almost nothing is left or even known about a composer of some merit. You should try get in touch with Dick Farney's heirs, maybe they can clear out their attic.

    But people believe what they want to be believe. Your story contains all these words: possible, no doubt, might, might, possibly, no doubt, probably, most likely, maybe, speculate. It's largely conjecture, in other words.
     
  10. richard66

    richard66 Richard Willmer Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,084
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Amateur musician
    Home Page:
    But David: there was a younger brother, Cilenio (Cyl Farney) who died in 2003.

    You also seem to pass over the fact that if all these pieces have been performed in public - and a ballet of piano concerto cannot be in private, unless one is King - by orchestras that are in existence in theatres that are extant by musicians who are living (and some of those on the list are) there would be some record of it. I wrote to Neusa França on Facebook and through Dib Franciss but received no reply. Pierre Feraux, who plays this piece, knows nothing - and he is a friend of Neusa's. I also wrote to Arnaldo Cohen, with no reply either. An enquiry to the Moreira Salles Institute (to which PS member Alexandre Dias is connected) and that was ignored too. I also notice that Alexandre, who also knows Neusa, does not say anything much.

    As for that "biography" of Dick, that is also a fabrication, unless that is also among the non-published works.
     
  11. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,152
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Chief Operating Officer, retired
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    Last Name:
    April
    First Name:
    David
    Hi Richard,

    Sorry, I neglected to mention Cilenio. But I can say now that had he taken charge of the scores (we don't know that he did), then clearly he never did anything to promote them, or if he did make such an effort, then it it came to naught. This music is not to be found in sheet music stores. My conclusion is that he was no more effective than his brother Farnesio in preserving them. It makes it all the easier to tentatively conclude that those scores probably no longer exist--i.e., they were likely placed in the rubbish. As for the Preludio, Op. 32, it appears to be one happy, isolated, lucky fluke--a piece that made its way into Jacques Klein's library and Neusa Franca's studio. But not one other score so far as we know has met a similar fortuitous fate.

    As for public performances of Dutra's music, while Mariangela's statements may be true, we've not seen any hard evidence to support that claim such as printed recital or concert programs or newspaper clippings by music editors or critics. Nor has a conductor, pianist, orchestra musician, musicologist, music teacher, concert goer, friend, acquaintance, or anyone else to date stepped forward to vouch for the great music of Dutra heard in the concert and recital halls of Rio de Janiero. Instead the response to date has been "I never heard of him." If we did have such evidence, then I would be more persuaded; but it still might fail to inform us of the whereabouts of the scores today.

    I don't know if Mariangela is a scam or not. She has made numerous statements in two postings and claims to "own" Eduardo Dutra, but efforts to verify many of those "facts" have met a dead end.

    I would like nothing better than to be optimistic and hopeful--who would not want to play another Dutra piece as appealing as the Preludio? But to date there has been no solid evidence of an extant treasure trove of scores by Dutra. I'm not trying to be a naysayer, but simply a realist as I consider this very odd situation.

    David
     
  12. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,152
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Chief Operating Officer, retired
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    Last Name:
    April
    First Name:
    David
    Hi Chris,

    Yes, I used those terms to carefully convey that my theory was conjecture and speculation. Mariangela's postings make for intriguing reading, but we've seen no supporting evidence or heard from anyone else who could vouch for the Dutra narrative. Had I not used words like "probably, possibly, might be, etc.", then I would have been making assertions without any way to prove them. I wanted above all to avoid that perception.

    Yes, it's a sad affair to be sure. Probably in his lifetime Dutra should have left very clear instructions in his will as to his wishes in the matter of his music scores upon his death.

    David
     
  13. richard66

    richard66 Richard Willmer Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,084
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Amateur musician
    Home Page:
    Maybe he did and that is why nothing is extant.
     
  14. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,152
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Chief Operating Officer, retired
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    Last Name:
    April
    First Name:
    David
    Hi Chris,

    Absolutely. Had he called for the destruction of his scores for whatever reason, and if that was dutifully carried out, then it too could explain why they have disappeared.

    David
     
  15. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    Messages:
    9,927
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Last Name:
    Breemer
    First Name:
    Chris
    I have not seen so much speculation since reading an attempted biography of Scarlatti ;-). Seems like we have discussed Dutra more than many other composers. Time to move on, IMO.
     
  16. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,152
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Chief Operating Officer, retired
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    Last Name:
    April
    First Name:
    David
    Hi Richard,

    Yes, we cannot rule out that for whatever reason Dutra might have left instructions to destroy his scores.

    David
     
  17. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,152
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Chief Operating Officer, retired
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    Last Name:
    April
    First Name:
    David
    Hi Chris,

    I'm not adverse to moving on. If someday some hard evidence is unveiled about Dutra's scores, great! But in the meantime all we have now is a mystery and conjectures about it.

    David
     
  18. richard66

    richard66 Richard Willmer Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,084
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Amateur musician
    Home Page:
    I am moving on. Unless something comes out of my investigations so dar I have finished.
     
  19. richard66

    richard66 Richard Willmer Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,084
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Amateur musician
    Home Page:
    :oops: and again :oops: !

    This is information and not conjecture:

    • Eduardo Dutra existed
      He had a son called Farnésio
      Farnésio is Dick Farney
      Dick has a living son who is called Eduardo
      His estate is managed by the niece of his second wife who is... Mariangela!

    Now if it is this niece who posted or someone else using her name is another thing, still, it seems I owe an apology.
     
  20. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    Messages:
    9,927
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Last Name:
    Breemer
    First Name:
    Chris
    This horse is truly dead as well :p
     

Share This Page