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Rachmaninoff Etude-Tableau in G-minor Op. 33, no. 8

Discussion in 'Submission Room' started by pianolady, Jun 26, 2007.

  1. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Thanks for showing me that, Jan. I guess my dumb feelings make my rhythm sloppy. Oh, well....

    My book (Dover) and a list I saw online shows this as No. 7.

    Thanks, Robert for your kind remarks. I guess Fragments is no good. :cry:
     
  2. robert

    robert Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Did not know about the confusing matter regarding the numbering!

    Stop crying...one thing at the time! I have not listened to it yet.
     
  3. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    So where is the Fragments recording then ? I know I saw it posted but now it's gone :?:
     
  4. robert

    robert Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    I noticed that I did not delete the Etude no. 7/8 in the initial post...did I accidentally delete the fragment?! Sorry if I did and please upload it again.
     
  5. Chaotica

    Chaotica New Member Piano Society Artist

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  6. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    And good it is, too. Must admit I've never heard anyone play it except myself, but nothing wrong with this. I am missing a bit of the mystery and wonder of this piece, it sounds just a tad literal.
    You could make more of the 'a tempo section', after the trill as here is where the tension of the previous bars drains away - a magical moment. The trill itself IMO would benefit from a B as closing note - at least that is what I've always done and I think it sounds better. I'm always one to improve on the composer :lol:
     
  7. robert

    robert Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    I must admit I have never heard this before and did not know it existed. Thanks for enlighten me!

    I have put the recording up on the site but not the sheets as it is so obviously copyrighted. If someone have a couple of hour free, pick your favorite notation program in create your own score. Then we can put it up unless that person restricts it.
     
  8. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Very good work, IMHO.
    Not so far from my favourite recording of this piece (Sofronitzky, who others?).
    The sad athmosphere (but it's not only an atmosphere, it was Rach conception of life)
    of the music is respected, and the instrumental suit is proper and secure.
    Believe me, I do not often tell that a recording is not "far from Sofronitzky's one".
    The phrasing is poetic and the melody has the right, dark evidence in relation to the arpeggios.
    I like to play it with more massive and hard (in certain points) sound, but it's only a question of tastes.
    Only a thing: why number 8? In my Dover Edition it has the number 7.

    All best,
    Sandro
     
  9. robert

    robert Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    And in other editions no.8. Is there someone who knows what is supposed as the correct numbering?
     
  10. Chaotica

    Chaotica New Member Piano Society Artist

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    When both numberings are used, why confuse people with an odd one that has no number 4? They will come up and ask, "Hey, hey, where is op.33 no.4? We want to listen to it, but you don't have it! Your site is bad!" etc. :(

    You get my point... :)
     
  11. robert

    robert Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Hey Monica. I put you up as news on the first page and as one of the first RSS feeds "Monica Hart goes Rachmaninov". Hope you did not mind :).
     
  12. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    No, I do not mind. Thank you.
    (Now I will practice even harder)
     
  13. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Here is the story as explained in the Boosey and Hawkes edition. B & H are the successors to the original publisher Gutheil so I guess their numbering must prevail.

    The original Op.33 set published separately by Gutheil in 1914 advertised 9 pieces but only 6 were actually published at the time, which are 1, 2, 6, 7, 8 and 9.

    No 4 was withdrawn from OP.33 by Rachmaninov and used as Op.39 no.6.

    Nos. 3 and 5 where rediscovered in Russia in 1947, and subsequently included in the B & H edition.
    So the contents of this set as published by B & H are (mind the numbers !)

    I. Op 33 No.1 (F minor)
    II. Op 33 No.2 (C major)
    III. Op 33 No.3 (F minor)
    IV. Op 33 No.5 (D minor)
    V. Op 33 No.6 (E flat minor)
    VI. Op 33 No.7 (E flat major)
    VII. Op 33 No.8 (G minor)
    VIII. Op 33 No.9 (C sharp minor)

    So while the fourth item is numbered IV, it's actually Op.33 No.5. There is no Op.33 No.4.
    And the one recorded by Monica is definitely Op.33 No.8 even though it has the roman number VII.
     
  14. Chaotica

    Chaotica New Member Piano Society Artist

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    I cannot agree with you, but it's your site and thus your decision, of course.

    But you should at least add a short note explaining there isn't supposed to be an op.33 no.4.
     
  15. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    And why not ? Is it not true what Boosey and Hawkes write in their preface ?

    That might be a good idea. We do not want people yelling our site is bad because we leave out one item :roll:
     
  16. Chaotica

    Chaotica New Member Piano Society Artist

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    Of course, this story is true. I now remember having read that on another forum, too.

    What strikes me is how you sell your argument as some kind of absolute truth. I think a numbering is just a numbering and there's no absolute numbering. And the Dover publishers thought the same way, it seems, and applied a logical numbering. And so did many other people. In this case, you don't always have to follow something that you consider absolute; sometimes, like in this case, you can set your own standards if you think they're better.

    I can't decribe it better in English, sorry.

    Btw, I have a rather strong sense of order, you must know.
     
  17. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Out of curiosity,I just did a quick search on Amazon and Barnes & Nobel on the Rachmaninoff Etudes cd's. Five cd's listed the g-minor as no. 7 and seven listed it as no. 8 and one didn't give it a number at all.
     
  18. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Seems opinions are divided about the numbering, and not just here :roll:

    I believe the correct way to label it is

    VII. Op 33 No.8 (G minor)

    The fact that R. withdraw No.4 for inclusion in the Op.39 set does not, in my humble
    opinion, give us the right to renumber the Op.33 items. I'l leave the hole in, and, indeed,
    explain why it's there. That gives our site an advantage over others who make a choice without justification.

    But of course that is personal opinion, not absolute truth.
     
  19. Chaotica

    Chaotica New Member Piano Society Artist

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    Okay, better not discuss this. I think we are a bit too opionnated about this. And if you add an explanation on the, things are easier for people new to Rachmaninov (I too was very confused about these numbering issue when I added these pieces to my collection last year).
     
  20. lisztzsil

    lisztzsil New Member Piano Society Artist

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    Hi Piano Lady,
    I didn't know this étude. Thank you for this beautiful rendition of it!

    Best regards,
    Alexandre
     

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