Piano Society Book Club

Andreas - I got your present. :wink: Did you get mine?

Book time:

Yes – I thought that was a good analogy as well.

Technically, any two colors would work. I once saw a Steinway concert grand where the black keys were yellow, and the white keys were green. Or maybe it’s orange and purple – now I can’t remember.

My grand has the modern substitute. I wish I had the ivory keys. My keys can get pretty slippery sometimes. But then I do what Rubinstein did – spray hairspray on them to make them sticky.

I was at a luncheon not long ago and our guest speaker was a man who builds clavichords. He gave us a concert on his clavichord and it was very hard to hear. Everybody in the room had to sit very still.

Andreas - I read the next two chapters, but I'm too tired to write anything about them now. I promise to do it in the morning.

Nighty-night

 

Pianolady wrote:

No, not yet, but I received an e-mail, which seemed to be uncomplete, it stoped in a setence and had no attachment. BTW, I have another nice present for you. But you have to wait a little bit. :wink:

Oh, that´s interesting, I didn´t know that. I´d test it, if I still would have my old Kawai. (I think, I wouldn´t like the smell while playing.)

Wow, that´s interesting. I´d like to hear also a clavichord live.

I´ve not read chapter 11 until now, because yesterday I have recorded two Chopin-pieces and I had severe problems with my video-program (I sat on it until 3 o´clock in the morning, then I fall into my bed. :roll: )
On monday school begins again, then I´ll see, how it goes with reading further. May be this night I´ll read chapter 11, if I find the time.

That sounds funnily, translated into German it´s like a word-play "nächtliche Nacht", I suppose.

 

Try to say that fast 3 times! :lol:

Ok, our character is taking lessons now. Great! Sounds like he likes Anna a lot. Some of the things she is making him do are interesting, although I don't think I would like doing them that much. I'm sure it helps when you need to memorize a piece, though.

And then chapter 11 - I like this part - all these different and interesting people gathering at the atelier. I don't quite understand what Luc said about the Freemasons. It seems he does not agree with their philosophies. Mozart was a Freemason - so was my grandfather.

ok - that's it for now.

I re-sent that 'present' a few moments ago.

 

Pianolady wrote:

Indeed, that´s not too easy. :lol:

That´s very interesting. I have read a book and visited a symposium about MOzarts "Zauberflöte" (Magic flute) as a Freemason-opera. This theme is absolutely fascinating for me, because I personally for me am on a similar way. I´ll read chapter 11 tonight.

Thank you so much Monica. I have received your complete mail now and I´ll write a reply soon.

 

PIanolady wrote:

Hurray, I´ve read chapter 11, too. I have done all these things very much, too, like Thad, and I think, they help very much to understand music deeply and profoundly, you are a complete other interpret, if you understand a piece in its structure. For me this is immensely important and part of my musical base and philosophy, may be I´m a bit like Anna in this point.
But I don´t like too much the literary recommendation, Anna gives to Thad. The book "Zen und die Kunst des Bogenschießens" is by Eugene Herrigel, which was a famous professor of philosophy and later in the time between 1933-45 he joined the NSDAP under Adolf Hitler and advanced to the director of the University of Erlangen. He always was an enthused adherer of the japanese and zen-budhism, but in the 1930th he worked on the communities between the NS-ideology (like fidelity to fatherland, to die for the fatherland etc.) and the zen-philosophy. This book (Zen und die Kunst des Bogenschießens) was adjusted in the 1950th from its racial ideals and was first translated into English and Japanese. It´s the only work of Eugene Herrigel, people are speaking about today.

Are you sure, you are talking about chapter 11? I didn´t find something about the Freemasons here. Probably you mean chapter 12. Tomorrow I´ll make my visite to "Café Atelier". :wink:

 

Very interesting. I didn't know anything about this.

Oops, sorry – yes, the Freemason part is in Chapter 12. And Andreas – are you going to become a Freemason? I don’t’ think they take women, do they? For a long time I have wanted very much to find out what my Grandfather was up to when he was one.


Unrelated to this, but related to pianos - I was doing some other reading about pianos today and learned that Grotrian has a duo grand piano – two grand pianos placed side by side with keyboards at opposite ends, with removable rim parts, connected soundboards, and a common lid. Doesn't that sound interesting? Wonder if there is a photo of it somewhere.

 

Pianolady wrote:

No, don´t worry, Monica, I´m not going to become a freemason and I have to admit, that I don´t know, if they take women. I´m just very interested in the religious symbols of Mozarts opera "The Magic Flute" and I have read the following book:
"Die Zauberflöte" (=The Magic Flute) by Alfons Rosenberg. He lived 1902-1985, at the beginning he was a communists, but then he developed to a philosoph and god-seeker. He wrote some books about symbols and there history. There exists also a famous book about Mozarts "Don Giovanni".
The Freemasons in their origin had a deep human and religious philosophy, but later, they became quite secularised, they were also a community of craftsmen and businessmen and got an important influence on the development of politics. There are theories, that they also are responsible for the French Revolution. And these secularised things are more mentioned in chapter 12, which I have read now, btw.
I´m only interested in their religious and mystic symbols, which are very deep. Mozart was a true adept, so far it is sure for me.

Isn´t it interesting, that Luc buys sitar-strings for his spinets and harpsichords? I found also very interesting this typical french atmosphere of discussion of the several people, who were in Lucs "Cafe Atelier". I can second this by own experience. (I still several times was in France and when I was still a pupil I had a french correspondent in an exchange of students. He visited me in Germany and I did the same and went to France.)

Yes, this sounds extremely interesting. I really would like to see a photo of it! Do you know the name of this model?
In the middle of nineteenth century nearly Grotrian and Steinweg separated. Steinweg went to New York, Grotrian continued to build pianos in Braunschweig (Germany). Steinweg changed his name into "Steinway" and his sons took the enterprise and named it "Steinway and sons". But the old Steinweg didn´t stay in New York. In the 1880th he went back to Hamburg (Germany) and built the "Steinways" there. So, there are German and American Steinways now. (My tuner says, that the German Steinways are better than the American ones, because they have another technique.)
Grotrian continued to built his own pianos, and that are the "Grotrian-Steinweg"-pianos of today. (They are not as expensive as Steinways, but expensive enough. F. ex. my model the Concert grand with a length of 2, 26m costs nearly 60000 Euro today, if you buy a new one. I recently saw an actual price-list. So I had a big luck to buy my nearly 25 years old model for 14000 Euro only. I think, I have made a bargain with it. I feel this piano really to be a great treasure, because of it´s high capability to produce shading nuances. This is possible because of its wide measure, my tuner has explained to me.)

Now book-time again:
In chapter 13 I find very suitable and adequate Thad´s thoughts to Beethovens Diabelli-variations. He said, that they are like an abstract of the classical era like Bachs Goldberg-variations are for the baroque epoch.
Here in chapter 13 it becomes clear again, that Thad likes the spontanous and private sphere of music-making respective piano-playing. So, he is deeply moved by listening to several musicians, which he heard either by passing through the streets of Paris or through open windows on the courtyard, f.ex. the older lady playing Beethovens Diabelli-variations, the jazz-guitarist, harpenist, flutist and the accompanist, who has several singers in his appartment.
He visits Jean Paul, the accompanist, and has an interesting discussion about perfect pitch and relative pitch and about song against piano, which is considered as a percussion-instrument by Jean-Paul.
Jean-Paul tells us about the advatanges and disadvantages of perfect pitch (I think, in German it´s "absolutes Gehör", "absolute ear"). The problem is, that his pitch is trained on the usual a=440 Hz, and if an instrument is tuned a bit higher he gets big problems. He also said, that a piano can never made to be singing like a real voice, even most pianists want to make the piano sing.
He describes the qualities of an accompanist: tact, humility, kindness and firmness about musical principles. I personally second that.
Very interesting for me is, that Farinelli as an exemplar of the old singers, had much knowledge in musical harmony and theory. I think, this is very important not only for the instrumentalists, but also for the singers. So, I agree to Jean-Pauls attitude at hundert percent again.
And I really didn´t know, that Swjatoslaw Richter worked in Odessa as an accompanist in clubs and for light entertainment in his early years, and that he got the knowledge, that "some things come only out, if you are forced to join the discontinuous notes of a piano to the ceaseless stream of the voice". Accompaning means for Jean Paul to breath together "and the music is your breath".

Truely, chapter 13 is a very profound one. I like it very much.

 

Thanks for searching that out for us, Sarah. It looks to be the exact piano I was talking about.

I like learning about religious and mystical symbols, as well. I also like trying to break secret codes, or overcoming obstacle-like courses.

I think he says that because he is German! :wink: In reality, both American and German Steinways are equal in quality. The difference lies in their sound – Hamburg Steinway’s hammers are a little harder than American Steinways and so the sound is slightly different. And you can’t argue the fact that professional performers choose between the two pianos equal number of times, some even going as far as using both when they are offered. Here in Chicago at our Orchestral Hall where the Chicago Symphony Orchestra performs, pianists are offered a Hamburg Steinway and an American Steinway, and you see both the same amount of times.



Book time:

I’ve never taken the time to learn about the Diabelli variations. I will do that someday.

I thought everybody considered the piano to be a percussion instrument, didn’t you? And yes – don’t we talk about our attempts to make the melody line sing on our pianos. I think this is somewhat possible with good legato, although of course we cannot make the volume of the tone change once we have struck the key. But singers can’t make their voices sing a chord, either, so we all have our limitations.

I enjoyed this chapter too - mostly because I like how Thad was so interested in hearing how all his other neighbors are busy practicing their instruments too.

And Andreas - I know you are back to work this week, so don't worry if it takes you some time to do the reading and commenting.

 

Sarah wrote:

Wow, that´s very interesting and amazing, Sarah! Thank you so much for to have posted it here!

 

Pianolady wrote:

May be there exists a translation into English of the book of Alfons Rosenberg?

I think, you are absolutely right with that. I personally like the softer Steinways more than the harder ones, so, I suppose, I would prefer an American Steinway.

I agree at hundert percent.

O.k., thank you, Monica. In every case I want to read further, because I find this book to be very interesting and it´s a personal enrichment for me to improve my English with it. I truely still feel much surer with it now.
This evening f.ex. I´ll still find some time, I think, and I like to read also in the evening instead of to watch TV or so. Í´ll see, what I can do. So, if you´ll have a look into this thread from time to time, you´ll see, if I could proceed or not.

 

O.k., a short book time before I go to bed now:
I ´ve read chapter 14. Very interesting, what Luc said about the tempered and equal tuning. I knew all that and that Bach wasn´t the first, who has written for the well-tempered clavier, before him - and this is not mentioned in the novel - there was Johann Caspar Ferdinand Fischer, who wrote 22 preludes and fugues for a tempered organ respective piano. He called it "Ariadne Musica". So, Bach was the first, who wrote in all 24 keys.
Very interesting, that Thad says, a tuner has to be a tuner, an artist and a psychologist. I think, that has much truth, because the tuner shouldn´t tune mechanically, but care for special conditions and for what his client prefers.
Really new for me was this theme of inscriptions of invisible parts of the piano. Very interesting. And I was moved by the story of a Steinway-master, who found the name of his late father in a grand-piano, he had to repair.
Does your piano have any invisible inscriptions? I´ll look, if my one has some...

 

Good morning, Andreas! :wink:

Just a quick note to tell you that I have not had the time to read Chapter 14 yet. I can probably read it later today or tonight, but you may not see any comment from me until late today or early tomorrow.

 

Pianolady wrote:

Don´t mention. We are not in any hurry. :wink:

 

Wow, that's fast, Nathan! Read up to chapter 14 as fast as you can. You will be happy to know that they are short chapters.

 

Wow, that´s great, Nathan, that we get a third reader. It´s a nice book.

Today my order arrived and I have received the normal book of our novel from the bookshop I have ordered it first, but they have said to me, that there are problems of delivery. Until now I have only read in my e-book-version on my computer. Although I had annuled this order (,because I had bought it already as an e-book), they send it to me, strange isn´t it?
Now my wife said, that she wants to read it eventually, too. So, I didn´t send back the consignment I received, but I think, I´ll keep it.

 

Ok, I have read chapter 14. I think it was interesting learning about piano tuners. And also the fact that the ear should be trained to listen to piano strings early - like before a person turns 25 years old. Guess it is too late for me then!

I have watched my tuner tune my piano many times. He uses a laptop computer but also sometimes uses only his ear. It amazes me how he can hear the slightest of pitch changes.

And I also think it is neat for a piano craftsman to sign his name in some hidden place inside the piano. I would if it were me. In fact, I have signed my name all over my house - inside walls, under stairs, etc. We did some major home improvements when we first moved into the house I live in now. Build new walls, took out flooring, things like that. Whenever we built new walls, my husband and I, even our kids sometimes, signed our names before the new drywall (sheet rock) (plaster board)(there are several names for this material)went up.

My tuner has also signed and dated his name inside my piano. Just on one of the keys. I bought my piano new, and the first time he tuned it is when he did that. It is to make a reference for anyone to know a little bit as to the date of my piano. Whether there any other names inside my piano, I do not know.

Ok, on to chapter 15. Remember - no need to rush. Plus, it will give Nathan time to catch up.