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Discussion in 'Technique' started by pianolady, Jul 27, 2007.

  1. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    I've come across something in a piece I am practicing that I have never seen before. On the attached picture, you can see it circled twice. Does it mean to play the note as sixteenth notes, but if so, why didn't he just write it that way? My next lesson is not for awhile, so it would be great if someone can explain this to me.
     
    pianolady, Jul 27, 2007
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  2. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    I don't know this piece (dammit, I'm useless :x ). Looks like either Liszt or early Scriabin.
    Anyway, because of the pedal marking underneath, it seems to me it is only an explicit instruction to change the pedal halfway that note. Apparently, all that is before and after this is played within a wash of pedal, and here it is crucial that you change. Strange way of notating it though, never seen it like that before.
     
    techneut, Jul 27, 2007
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  3. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    It's Granados. And boy, is it driving me crazy. It is so hard! Even more than the Rondalla. There are a million (no exaggeration) accidentals and leaps and melody line switches and wild harmonies, that I literally have to stop playing and walk around the room to clear my head. My brain must be too full or something to take this all in, because I'm not getting it. Plus, I have discovered mistakes on other pieces in this book, so in this piece -all these weird tones - I can't be sure if it's correct or not. About ten minutes ago, I ordered a Granados CD online, so hopefully that will help.
     
    pianolady, Jul 27, 2007
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  4. juufa72

    juufa72 New Member Piano Society Artist

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    This isn't related to your problem....but I see we have something in common--marking low notes in the right and left hands (as in your case the "F"). I too write in notes that I cannot sight read. Makes me a little relieved to know that I am not the only one!
     
    juufa72, Jul 27, 2007
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  5. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Oops. You caught me cheating. :oops: Although, sometimes I can't help it, like when the print is so small that I can't see how many ledger lines there are. (my stupid near-sighted vision is getting worse :x ) And actually, what you see here is nothing. Some of my music (especially this one!) has arrows, circles, note names, sharps and flats, english translations under some unusual foreign words, etc...all in pencil, though, so I can erase if it gets too messy.
     
    pianolady, Jul 27, 2007
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  6. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Ah, Granados, I could have guessed :) Though still no idea which piece it might be :x Not any of the big well-known works for sure.
    This one sounds quite a handful, and cold nicely prepare you for the Goyescas, the non plus ultra of Spanish romanticism.
    But I am probably right about that pedal change though ?

    I do that often too. If there are more than 3 ledger lines I find it impossible to see at a glance how many there are, and where that note is.
     
    techneut, Jul 28, 2007
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  7. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Monica, I remember a thread just about that passage on Great Pianists (a Yahoo Group). You find the thread here: http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/great-pianists/message/41038 (account needed though). Nothing decisive about it, but full of valuable information about performing Granados's piano music. You could also borrow from a library the books about piano pedaling mentioned in a couple of posts there.

    I for one agree with Chris about the meaning of that sign. From a musical point of view, the aim of those very quick pedal changes (on the first semiquaver of the beat) should be to partially clean the previous harmonies and make "audible" the crotchet pause and the following tremolo in the middle register.
     
    Anonymous, Jul 28, 2007
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  8. Anonymous

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    very good point pianolady. I would play the C chord twice(semi quaver) after holding the first c octave. on the beat with the LH D flat note. Do the same for the next circled RH d flat.

    If you really want to cheat, listen to the professional the recordings and slow its tempo using software.
     
    Anonymous, Jul 28, 2007
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  9. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Thanks, coccobill. I have just signed up for that group. I never knew it existed, before.
    And this pedalling thing - I am sort of bewildered. This piece is supposed to clip along pretty fast and I'm already changing the pedal often. Maybe you are supposed to hit it twice while also hitting the pedal. I don't know...I'll read all that information over on that group place and maybe get a clue.

    That's another good idea, rinis. When my CD arrives, I will pop it in my computer. I have no idea how to slow it down, but I'll try. However, knowing me, I will delete/erase the entire disc, so I should probably copy/burn it first.


    This is the number 5 piece in the Escenas Romanticas set. I'm working on no. 3, as well, which also has some wild things going on. But if these are easier than the Goyescas, then forget the Goyescas. :lol:
     
    pianolady, Jul 28, 2007
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  10. rachchopinfan

    rachchopinfan New Member

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    Granados?

    Not the subject but I am curious about which Granados's music your piece is? Is one of Granados Spanish dances? I found at youtube.com Granados number 2, only Granados and Granados number 5.

    In youtube:


    "Daniel Berman plays Granados", this one is Goyescas fandango and in "Piano - Granados" posted by augunther (very beautiful) and Enzo playing Dancas espanholas number 5 from and the same played by Claudio Carbo.

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... q=granados
     
    rachchopinfan, Jul 28, 2007
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  11. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Check out "Amazing Slow Downer" at http://www.ronimusic.com/amsldowin.htm.
    It's not free but craks are available from e.g. http://www.crack.ms/cracks/a_11.shtml
     
    techneut, Jul 29, 2007
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  12. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    No. It's no. 5 of the Escenas Romanticas.


    Thanks! That first one looks perfect. Can't wait to try it when I get the CD. The second one is like a foreign language to me. Maybe my son can help me with it. He tinkers around on the computer a lot. (I'll have to cover up all those 'lovely' pictures, though.)
     
    pianolady, Jul 29, 2007
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  13. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    HA ! You really believe he hasn't seen anything like that on the web yet ? Get real :lol:
     
    techneut, Jul 29, 2007
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  14. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Shhh. I don't want to know that. :wink:
     
    pianolady, Jul 29, 2007
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  15. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Just in case anybody is interested -
    After seriously practicing this piece, I now know that this is definitely a kind of pedalling mark. However, it is almost unecessary, because the way the music flows, you do have to clear the pedal on these places. It is pretty much instinctual.
    Coccobill - thanks again for the link to that other place. It's funny, because the person asked the exact question that I did, and no one knew for sure what to make of this sign. They say to do like Alicia de Larrocha (which I am hoping to do after I listen to her CD) and the books that are mentioned contradict each other. But Granados, himself, also wrote a book about pedalling (which I'm not sure - but I doubt if I could ever find it). At least it is kind of nice to know that I am not alone in my perpetual uncertainty and confusion. :)
     
    pianolady, Jul 30, 2007
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  16. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Just in case anybody is interested -
    After seriously practicing this piece, I now know that this is definitely a kind of pedalling mark. However, it is almost unnecessary, because the way the music flows, you do have to clear the pedal on these places. It is pretty much instinctual.
    Coccobill - thanks again for the link to that other place. It's funny, because the person asked the exact question that I did, and no one knew for sure what to make of this sign. They say to do like Alicia de Larrocha (which I am hoping to do after I listen to her CD) and the books that are mentioned contradict each other. But Granados, himself, also wrote a book about pedalling (which I'm not sure - but I doubt if I could ever find it). At least it is kind of nice to know that I am not alone in my perpetual uncertainty and confusion. :)
     
    pianolady, Jul 30, 2007
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  17. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    I got that program installed (thanks again, C.B.). It is really neat! Now I can listen to the piece I’m having trouble with, slow it way down, and hear all the notes that are supposed to be played. All my questions about accidentals, harmonies, and errors in the book are answered. I love technology! (when I can figure out how to use it :lol: )
     
    pianolady, Aug 2, 2007
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  18. Chaotica

    Chaotica New Member Piano Society Artist

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    Yes, sometimes I do the same thing with my digital piano. It's very useful - and shocking, from time to time. You think you've played something like an even semi-quaver accompaniment, but when you re-listen to it slowed down, it's some jazzy dotted rhythm, in the best case... :wink:
     
    Chaotica, Aug 2, 2007
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  19. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    That's funny! I haven't listened to myself play at slower speeds, yet. I'm sure you are correct about it being enlightening. But right now, I am having so much fun with this Granados piece and listening to A. de Larrocha - it really is amazing. I did not like the piece when I first started it. I couldn't hear the melody and harmonies correctly. But now....it's been like solving a mystery. I can't believe how many errors are in my book, and I would not have figured them out if I wasn't able to listen to the piece at a very slow speed. And I wasn't aware of how deLarrocha uses some techniques that you can't really hear at normal fast speeds, but I can hear them now. I'm starting to like the piece (mostly - probably more when I can actually play it :wink: ). Can't wait to do this to some other pieces too.
     
    pianolady, Aug 2, 2007
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