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Khachaturian - Toccata

Discussion in 'Submission Room' started by djrubens78, Apr 13, 2010.

  1. djrubens78

    djrubens78 New Member

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    This is a recording from a cd I made in 2006 called different perceptions.

    I hope you enjoy it!
     
  2. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Hello Ruben and welcome to Piano Society.

    I'm not crazy about people submitting their piano recordings from several years ago, but here you are with some so you first need to know a few things:

    1. Please introduce and tell us a little about yourself.

    2. Then upload only mp3 files. Wav files are way too large!!

    Thank you.
     
  3. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Bravo, I have enjoyed your recording of this famous and expressive piece very much!
    I have played it myself during a piano competition in 1987 and I played it by heart then, of course.
    I didn´t follow along with score, but all seems very clear and expressive! For me this is
    a convincing interpretation, though there are so much possibilities for this piece. This is a great
    composition, isn´t it?
    The sound-quality of your recording is excellent and the wav-file conserves much more of it as
    a mp3-file, of course, but on this site it´s habit to post mp3-files, which is understandable because
    of a limited disk space, I suppose.
     
  4. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    You suppose? :roll: You know full well that is the case here! If you want to put up wav files, then we will be looking for another $100 from you during our next request-for-donations drive. :wink: :lol:
     
  5. arensky

    arensky New Member

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    WAV files are absurdly large, although they sound wonderful. Monica's right, we literally can't afford to host files that big.
     
  6. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Not having highspeed broadband Internet, I don't even start to download a 50Mb file unless I absolutely need it.
     
  7. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Pianolady wrote:
    No, I didn´t really know that, but it seemed a logical and probable explanation respective reason ("fascinating" to speak with Mr. Spock of "Spaceship Enterprise"). O.k., may be it could be worthwhile to pay 100 $ for posting wav-files! :wink: :lol:
    Seriously, for me it´s absolutely no problem to post mp3-files and it´s understandable for a site, where many people want to post their recordings, of course! I just wanted to fix, that there principally is a certain reduction of quality from wav to mp3, that´s just a simple fact.
    I would be ready to convert this splendid recording to mp3, if it´s wished by Ruben, and I could also do this with his Cage-piece.
     
  8. 88man

    88man Member Piano Society Artist

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    Overall a nice performance, but some key elements to the music are missing, mostly rhythmic and dynamic contrast. Both melodic AND rhythmic accents are essential. The melodic accents are there, but the accents on the beats like in the measure Nos. 5, 21 are missing. Measure 72 and onward, in the ascending broken B-flat passages, you play C-natural - it should be C-flat in the key of E-flat minor. The dissonant C-flat is an important note in the entire piece. Submitting 3 year old recordings might not be a fair appraisal because so much can evolve in that time. However, the ending is very well played.
     
  9. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Of course, compression is never lossless. Whether you can actually hear a difference is another matter.

    Well if you wish to be the PS conversion master !
    But I think people should do that themselves to start with.
     
  10. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    techneut wrote:
    I can hear very well a quite big difference, at least on my hifi system, which is not a bad one.

    I didn´t really plan to do that forever and in all cases. Just in this individual case I have offered it to do it one times, because it could be, that the poster here has no possibility at this time to do it and because I like that recording and wanted just to be kind. Of course, if he would like to post more in future he should purchase a conversion program or use a costless one, if there exists one. But in this moment it seems, that Ruben shows no more interest in his posting here...
     
  11. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Interesting, I must try that out. Can't probably hear that on my cheapo system. But it makes me wonder whether one should keep all one's recordings in WAV format as well as mp3, just in case you'd want to burn a CD.

    Yes, strange.
    This is an extremely good recording indeed. It sounds to me like a professional studio recording (though in that case there probably would not be a wrong note as George claimed). It's sure time for Ruben to introduce himself !
     
  12. 88man

    88man Member Piano Society Artist

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    I always record in wav. Mp3 is an approximation. You never know when the next recording will be a keeper or appear on a CD. The transients and highs will always sound more natural on a .wav file. You can always compress to .mp3 later.
     
  13. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Hi djr,

    Wow, I have DSL but that WAV file was still a long download! But once I listened to it, the wait was well worth it. I believe you played this piece with artistry--the toccata with flair and its romantic middle part with a lyrical, sensuous sound. Great playing!

    David
     
  14. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    techneut wrote:
    I always keep a wav-file of each of my recordings saved on my hard-disk. And I burn them all on CD from time to time, because you never now, if your hard-disk will break down and you will loose all your work. It´s most the time, when I travel to Switzerland to visit my relatives (relatives of my wife), then I bring them a CD with my newest recordings as a present. They always are very interested. I don´t know, if I have really all my recordings burned on CD, but quite a lot of them. The good thing is to have a "back up" on PS (and YouTube). :D The other question is, if CD´s and DVD´s are a conserving-medium for a long period (more than 100 years) or eternity. I have heard, they are not. And how long does PS or the internet exist? We all don´t know that.
    In former times I recorded with 96000 Hertz, 32 bit-float (you even can do that with Zoom H4), which is studio standard. For burning them on CD I had to resample them always into 44100 Hertz, 16 bit. But that´s seems me to be too much effort now. Now I always record with 44100 Hertz. Then I edit my recording and convert it to mp3. But the base is always a wav-file. It´s always possible to convert a wav-file to mp3, but you can´t make the loss of quality reverse, if you convert a mp3 to wav. So, I always keep the wav-files. The mp3-files I also keep until now, but I think, I should delete them, because my extern hard-disks are quite full now.

    Also in a professional recording there could be a wrong note, if it has been overseen, but you are right, it´s quite unusual.
     
  15. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Do you guys know approximately how many wav files you can fit on a CD? You can literally fit 15 to 20 pieces on a CD when they're mp3's. But I know how large wav files are so I never thought to burn them on a CD because I figured only one or two of them would fit. Is that about right?

    Also - sorry to burst the bubble on the Khachaturian recording here done by our phantom poster, but it just dawned on me that this Toccata is one of the pieces B&H made us take off the site. At least I think so.
     
  16. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    No, it wasn't one of these. They were the Bartok Sonatina, Copland Piano Blues, and Prokofiev Peter and the Wolf.

    But I remember vaguely that they made one of our members (forgot the name) remove his recording of this piece off his own site. So we better be careful putting this up. Anyway if the poster doesn't come back it's a moot point...
     
  17. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    I too save all of my WAV files on my HD as well as on a backup external HD. Plus they're here at PS. I have several at YouTube, but do not consider those to be of comparable quality. When I convert music files to MP3, I listen to them and they're fine. And when they're uploaded to PS, they still sound fine. Then when I create video format files (WMV) I listen to them and they too sound good. But once they're uploaded to YouTube, I don't know what it is exactly, but their so-called "processing" degrades the audio tracks. Almost sounds like analog wow and flutter in some spots. So there's not much archive value in those.

    David
     
  18. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    I know what you mean, David. It seems to be a sort hit-and-miss on Youtube; some of my videos sound okay and others don't.

    Also, have you burned any of your wav file recordings onto a CD? I'm still wondering if I should be doing that instead of converting them into mp3 and then burning onto a CD like I've been doing.
     
  19. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Yes that is what you should have been doing. Actually the burn process converts mp3 right back to wav before writing it on the CD - but of course it can't put back the quality that was lost when compressing wav to mp3.
     
  20. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Hi,

    Don't laugh, but the last time I burned music files to CDs was in the 1990s! :lol: The medium then was cassette tape. And the work the studio did varied greatly in quality. Knowing nothing of classical music, they applied Dolby here or there, etc.

    When standalone CD burners were invented, I didn't get one. (Marketers would hardly call me an "early adopter" of new products.) My PC does have that capacity but I've never used it. My Dell 2300 PC is 9 years old now (still goes great). I'm thinking of getting a new one before next year. When I do that, I'll buy some blank CDs, and get my technically-adept son to show me the ropes, as he burns CDs all the time. As I said, I have all my WAV files on an external HD, and Windows Media Player has the transfer capability, so the process should be easy to burn my newer digital recordings onto CD. My son can show me how to do the spacing between pieces, etc. Once I'm confident with the process, I can then do it on my own.

    When CDs first came out, it was thought that the archive lifespan was 80+ years. More recently that seems to have come into question, as deterioration of CDs has already been documented since its invention. So it's very good, but perhaps not yet the silver bullet for "permanent" archiving.

    David
     

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