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How would you play this?

Discussion in 'Repertoire' started by John Robson, Jan 10, 2008.

  1. John Robson

    John Robson New Member Piano Society Artist

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    In the third measure from the end there is a tied quarter note A Natural followed by a half note A. Should it remain natural as I now play it? The next measure with the broken chord had a natural sign which is so small that you probably can't see in front of the A in the broken chord. Starting at the measure marked 3/4 I play A Natural through the end. Agree or disagree? I heard one pianist play an Ab half note. :?

    By the way, I don't understand why the composer added the final measure as it is just a full rest. Wouldn't it sound the same either way?
     
  2. Terez

    Terez New Member

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    I would play A natural. Because the tie of course stays the same, and the tied note would give precedent for the measure. And then of course, it's natural in the next measure. The A flat wouldn't necessarily sound bad, but I'm thinking it should be natural straight through.

    And the last measure does seem sort of senseless. Maybe they just wanted an even number of measures or something? Maybe you should stay in position over the keyboard to finish the phrase out or something? Who knows....
     
  3. chopinman0901

    chopinman0901 New Member

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    Yeah, I agree with Terez on both questions. It is probably an A natural and the last measure is kind of pointless.

    By the way, who is the composer and what piece is this?
     
  4. alf

    alf Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Glad to see you keeping on your Scriabin journey, John.

    I'd be more inclined to play Ab (not because Terez would play the other way around :lol:), strictly speaking courtesy flats are not compulsory and you have Ab in the key signature. My Dover edition doesn't help.

    Scriabin's Valse Op.1
     
  5. John Robson

    John Robson New Member Piano Society Artist

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    ?

    Thanks for the input though I'm still not positive how I would play that. I thought I had decided to maintain the A natural throughout that part, but now....

    Alf, do you really think it should be Ab, or are you joking? I don't take liberties with Scriabin's notation because he is sometimes purposely very strange. There are a couple of other spots in this Valse that sound almost like wrong notes, but at least in one case, I'm sure he intended what is written. I'm still inclined to think the A natural should be played. However, the jury is still out...Anyone? Anyone? (I'm reminding myself of "Ferris Beuler's Day Off.") Anyone? Anyone? :lol:

    Alf, you're right again. You must be a "Scriabin expert." I didn't think anyone would recognize that Valse.
     
  6. chopinman0901

    chopinman0901 New Member

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  7. alf

    alf Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Let it be natural, then! :eek:

    John, you see, I'm not a true Scriabin pundit... :lol:
     
  8. demonic_advent

    demonic_advent New Member

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    My experience with Scriabin tells me this: If it's an early work, and it sounds like an odd note, it's probably intentional... but I have never heard anything that sounds like a "wrong" note before.

    I would assume that it would go to the A natural, because it carries over... but now I feel the urge to dig up my copy of the waltz and take a look at it again. :D
     
  9. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    I don't know this waltz, and am not a Scriabin pundit, but I'd go for the natural. The A flat does nopt seem to make sense - and early Scriabin usually makes sense even if late Scriabin doesn't :p
    The bar at the end seems to make sense to me, he probably wants you to keep the pedal down for a full bar after you have lifted the final chord. Either that, or he did not want the audience to applaud too soon.
     
  10. alf

    alf Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Yes, that is probably so. The late hour and a finger of Talisker clouded my judgement. Moreover there are similar passages along the Valse with long repeated notes and the coda might therefore simply follow that pattern.
     
  11. Terez

    Terez New Member

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    lol...I saw you on as I was going to bed earlier, and I had a sneaking premonition that you would come tell him to play Ab. :lol:
     
  12. John Robson

    John Robson New Member Piano Society Artist

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  13. John Robson

    John Robson New Member Piano Society Artist

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  14. demonic_advent

    demonic_advent New Member

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    Hehehe... The great thing about those notes that might sound a bit off at first:

    While it might take a while to figure out why he has some of those seemingly odd harmonic devices in his music... if they are played correctly, it can create the most beautiful effects imaginable.

    That alone is what has caused Scriabin to "usurp" Rachmaninoff as my favorite composer.

    But I digress...
     
  15. Terez

    Terez New Member

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    I think digression is okay once the OT is resolved. ;)
     
  16. chopinman0901

    chopinman0901 New Member

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    I think that's what's so wonderful about Scriabin. He can bring you unexpected notes and harmonies, yet it only adds to the music.

    Even in the Chopinesque Op. 1 waltz of this topic he isn't completely indebted to Chopin. He already has his own style at Op. 1, and I find it great that he can make you think, "Whoah, I didn't expect that note, but I love it!"
     
  17. demonic_advent

    demonic_advent New Member

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    Exactly!!!

    But only if it's played properly...

    There are times when you're listening to somebody play, and it sounds like crap. Then they try saying: "It's not my fault! It's Scriabin's! He put a wierd note there..."

    But that's just people being stupid... :shock:

    And if you look even futher back than op. 1, to the sonata-fantasy, that I believe was written when he was either 12 or 13... you can still see that he had his own voice, right from the beginning.
    I think that's the mark of a great composer. Every great composer always has his own style... they don't just rip it off from somebody else.

    Too bad Scriabin died so young... He could have finished Mysterium...
     
  18. chopinman0901

    chopinman0901 New Member

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    Some of his stuff, like Mysterium, is too... weird for me (I don't know how else to put it). I like pretty much all of his tonal stuff, and the late sonatas are as strange as I'll listen.

    I guess I can say that I like the unexpected things he does, but only to an extent. He got too weird toward the end of his life for most people, I think.
     
  19. demonic_advent

    demonic_advent New Member

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    Would you believe that I actually used to feel the same way?

    It took me a while to adjust myself to the later works... but after a lot of listening to them... it eventually just clicked. Now they're some of my favorites. :D

    But I still adore the early works! He really brought new life into a fading style, which was being replaced by new modernist views...

    Then he created his own modernist ideas... and I learned to love them!

    But... the first time I heard his "Black Mass" Sonata... I remember being sooo freaked out, thinking it was the worst thing I'd ever listened to...
    Now I listen to it all the time!
    But... the White Mass sonata took me the longest to grow accustomed to, because at first, I couldn't quite understand it... now I do!
     
  20. chopinman0901

    chopinman0901 New Member

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    I believe Scriabin has a different (and in my opinion, much better) atonality than that of Schoenberg and the others. His music is almost a mix of Romantic, Impressionist, and Modernist; it is difficult to classify him.

    We like him because he is like other composers, while at the same time he is completely unlike any others. I know that doesn't make sense :) .
     

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