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G. Catoire, "Chants du crepuscule", Op. 24, No. 2

Discussion in 'Submission Room' started by Rachfan, Aug 15, 2009.

  1. felipesarro

    felipesarro New Member

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    maybe I used the wrong word.
    For me, you were offending the composer, not me! :lol:
    hehehe
    The composer!
    Because I find his early pieces so good!

    PS: I was listening to Hamelin's Catoire CD until now, enjoying very much!
     
  2. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Hi Felipe,

    I thought you were misunderstanding me, but I was misunderstanding you. Glad we cleared it up! :lol:

    David
     
  3. felipesarro

    felipesarro New Member

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    you'd better learn Portuguese for improving our communication :lol:
     
  4. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Hi Felipe,

    Actually, in my youth I studied a little Spanish at university. When two people were speaking Portugese, I could get the gist of it pretty well. But now I'd need a refresher course. :lol:
     
  5. felipesarro

    felipesarro New Member

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    Really that you can understand a little Portuguese, due to your Spanish lessons?

    generally what happens is the opposite. People who speak Spanish have more difficult trying to understand Portuguese than we Brazilian people listening to Spanish.

    interesting! hehe
     
  6. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Felipe,

    Here's a theory: If a person grows up speaking Spanish, it might be that Portugese sounds quite far afield. But to a person studying Spanish as a second language, the first thing noticed is the similarities between Spanish and Portugese. Just a supposition though.

    David
     
  7. felipesarro

    felipesarro New Member

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    I can see.

    But usually Portuguese has more phonems than Spanish, and words and sentences in Spanish are shorter than in Portuguese, so it's easier to notice how a word, verb or sentence became shorter, while the opposite "movement" is harder.
     
  8. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Yes, and the sounds are different too at times. For example, in Spanish, Villa Lobos would be pronounced as it looks, but in Portugese it's more like Villa Lobossshhh. There are many words with that extended consonant sound. That might confuse the Spanish speakers too.

    David
     
  9. felipesarro

    felipesarro New Member

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    hm... not really.
    you know... Portuguese speakers from Portugal pronounce Lobossssshhh, but in Brazil it's not always this way. In Rio people say like this, but in São Paulo (I'm from São Paulo) we pronounce "as written", as you said. :wink:
     
  10. felipesarro

    felipesarro New Member

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    but I agree that the sound of Portuguese and Spanish are very different.
    I find French much closer to Portuguese sound than Spanish.
     
  11. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Hi Felipe,

    That's an interesting point about regional dialects of the Portugese language within Brazil. We have the very same situation here in the U.S. with English. As examples, we have midwestern English (supposedly the most standard and most easily understood, although those of us on the East Coast strongly disagree), the so-called southern "drawl", and New England English, just to name three very different dialects. And here within the six New England states, there are even more differences. Maine English is quite different in sound from Connecticut English farther south. Even the vocabulary is a bit different among the states. And when you compare the sound of English in different countries, it is all the more striking, for example in Australia, the UK, USA, South Africa, etc. My wife can't fathom Jamaican English at all, so I interpret for her, as I have no difficulty with it. :lol: Then, of course there are spelling differences. The British and Americans rib each other all the time about spelling. (The American forms are correct, of course! :lol:)

    David
     
  12. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Dup post.
     
  13. felipesarro

    felipesarro New Member

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    the same here. also Brazilians are correct, of course! hehe (though those differences in spelling have been unified in the beginning of this year, through all countries whose main language is Portuguese)

    about the sounds...
    I would not consider the differences of pronunciation to be a whole distinct dialect. I don't know the exact meaning of this word in English, but a dialect (at least in Portuguese) is almost a completely different language. ALMOST. people who speak differenct dialects (based on the same language) hardly can understand each other, and I'm not talking about slang. as it seems to me, both Portuguese and English have different pronunciation and vocabulary depending on the region, but not too much difference to be considered distinct dialects. (though sometimes I can't understand the Portuguese pronunciation. they speak too fast, and not a whole word is said completely. hehe they stop in the middle)

    anyway...
    in my first job (over 2 years ago) I used to call the technical support in the USA, but depending on the hour of the day, it would be redirect to any other region of the world. I'd to pray not to be answered by an Indian guy. hehe
    terrible their English... hehe
     
  14. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Hi Felipe,

    That's a good distinction you make between dialect and pronunciation, and I agree with it. The British would say that I nearly created a con-TRO-ver-sy with that, where in fact, it was merely a CON-tro-ver-sy! :lol:

    David
     
  15. alf

    alf Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Re: G. Catoire, "Chants du crepuscule", Op. 24, No

    Hamelin certainly has a great sense of humo(u)r, but he also is humble and, for what I read of and by him, I believe he did mean what he wrote. Of course "technically demanding" is a formula that can be used with less or more intensity. If you care for tone differentiation in a contrapuntal setting, Catoire does often require a transcendental technique. There's no question about it.

    David, excellent playing as usual. Now are you going for #1 or #4?
     
  16. felipesarro

    felipesarro New Member

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    I don't know exactly what you mean by saying Hamelin is humble, but I think I agree. hehe
    The problem is... I think there is no other disc with Catoire piano music, besides his.

    about things being demanding...
    this way you said, EVERYTHING is demanding, even slow movements by Mozart and Beethoven. and I agree. I do think everything is demanding.
     
  17. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Not just their English, but they have a very different mentality. I once had the pleasure to sit in with a conference call with Indian guys, and it was lucky that I did not have to say anything, I could not have gotten word in sideways even if I'd wanted to.

    Do check out this clip, it is hilarious http://www.illwillpress.com/tech.html
     
  18. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Hi Alphonso,

    Thanks very much! Yes, I am now at work on No. 4. If I can survive that one, then I'll turn to No. 1. Stay tuned!

    As far as Hamelin's concept of technique goes, everything is relative. What's easy for him is hard for me, and what's difficult for him is way more difficult for me. :lol:


    David
     
  19. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Yes, it's true. Moritz Rosenthal in his 60s once remarked that he had been studying Chopin's little Prelude, Op. 28, No. 7 in A and was still discovering new insights into the piece. And I believe it.

    David
     
  20. alf

    alf Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    I mean the opposite of arrogant. Sometime ago I linked a long interview to him in the 'Pianists' forum. It tells a lot about him.
     

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