Thank you to those who donated to Piano Society in 2017.

G. Catoire, "Chants du crepuscule", Op. 24, No. 2

Discussion in 'Submission Room' started by Rachfan, Aug 15, 2009.

  1. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,152
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Chief Operating Officer, retired
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    Last Name:
    April
    First Name:
    David
    Georgy Catoire composed his Chants du Crepuscule (Songs of Twilight), Op. 24 in 1914. These pieces are translucent and a bit impressionistic, but with a lush late romantic tinge. The “Chant No. 2” in F minor, a difficult piece, reveals a somewhat capricious nature, yet is sometimes melancholy, restless, and ruminating, but ends in a bright F major picardie third.

    In the liner notes of Avie CD, AV2143, entitled “Catoire, Complete Works for Violin and Piano” with Herwig Zack, violin and Bernd Zack, piano, Herwig Zack wrote:

    “… Catoire’s compositions are very hard to play and of formidable virtuoso demand, interspersed with technical and rhythmic difficulties. … Among the characteristics of his style are a distinctive chromaticism, subtly flowing modulations into distant keys, a preference for altered chords and the use of augmented triads in his later compositions upon occasion without resolution, complex rhythmic structures, for instance 3 against 5, 4 against 7, hemiolas, sophisticated polyphonic work and romantic vocal texture.”

    Similarly in his liner notes for his Hyperion CD, A67090, "Catoire Piano Music", Marc-Andre Hamelin wrote:

    “… Catoire’s piano music is technically demanding, and can only be properly revealed when played by a musician possessing a transcendental technique. ….”

    To me, reading those descriptions is daunting, but I persevere in this repertoire.

    Comments welcome.

    Piano: Baldwin Model L Artist Grand (6’3”)
    Recorder: Korg MR-1000
    Mics: Earthworks TC20 matched pair of small diaphragm omni-directional condenser microphones

    David


    Catoire - Chants du Crepuscule, Op. 24, no. 2
     
  2. juufa72

    juufa72 New Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,387
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Obamanation, unfortunately...
    Last Name:
    Grocholski
    First Name:
    Julius
    Sounds good to me, Mr. David. You are ever so close to a Complete Set of Catoire :wink:
     
  3. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,152
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Chief Operating Officer, retired
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    Last Name:
    April
    First Name:
    David
    Hi juufa,

    Thanks for your compliment and encouragement. Well, the pieces get harder as one goes along in this set. Hopefully I can complete it. :)
     
  4. felipesarro

    felipesarro New Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2008
    Messages:
    916
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    System Analyst, for now
    Location:
    Brazil
    Hi, David!

    I don't know if this piece is late romantic, or it sounds like late romantic in your hands :lol:
    Anyway... I think the only comercial recording of it is by Hamelin, and Hamelin plays with restraint.

    It sounds good to me.
     
  5. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,152
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Chief Operating Officer, retired
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    Last Name:
    April
    First Name:
    David
    Hi Filipe,

    Thanks for listening! Well, hopefully coming from 1910 it's indisputably late romantic, but especially under my hands. :lol: I'm just glad to have posted it, as it's been awhile since I posted No. 3. The polyphony with its voice leadings, exchanges between the hands, and unexpected tonal shifts, is very complex. If I had to endure one more practice session, I think it would have driven me mad. Fortunately I believe I achieved a respectable recording today, so am happy to share it here. Now on to the next one... which is probably even more difficult. :roll:

    David
     
  6. juufa72

    juufa72 New Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,387
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Obamanation, unfortunately...
    Last Name:
    Grocholski
    First Name:
    Julius
    But you will get better as you record more. :!: :p
     
  7. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,152
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Chief Operating Officer, retired
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    Last Name:
    April
    First Name:
    David
    Well, in the struggle we'll see whether I become a better pianist or if Catoire drives me crazy first. :lol:
     
  8. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2006
    Messages:
    8,710
    Likes Received:
    1
    Last Name:
    Hart
    First Name:
    Monica
    All of this music up here tonight it great to listen to this time of the night (12:00-midnight). I enjoyed this one too, David. I'll take of it tomorrow.
     
  9. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,152
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Chief Operating Officer, retired
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    Last Name:
    April
    First Name:
    David
    Hi, Monica

    Glad you liked this piece. Thanks!

    David
     
  10. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2006
    Messages:
    8,710
    Likes Received:
    1
    Last Name:
    Hart
    First Name:
    Monica
    Ok, it is up.
     
  11. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,152
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Chief Operating Officer, retired
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    Last Name:
    April
    First Name:
    David
    That's super, Monica. I hope many people will listen to this "Chant". There is a great deal of beauty packed into this all-too-fleeting moment.

    David
     
  12. nathanscoleman

    nathanscoleman New Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Messages:
    725
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Louisiana, USA
    Last Name:
    Coleman
    First Name:
    Nathan
    Curse you David!!! I canNOT add even one more piece to my iwannas stack!

    This was really good ... I can see how much I've missed now in last few months. Gonna go listen to everything else by this guy. Yummy and lush.
     
  13. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    Messages:
    9,927
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Last Name:
    Breemer
    First Name:
    Chris
    Re: G. Catoire, "Chants du crepuscule", Op. 24, No

    It amuses me when Hamelin dubs anything 'technically demanding'. I bet he's being facetious. I'd guess the demands are more of an intellectual nature. You have to be totally in tune with this idiom, or else you won't get the message. To me, this piece is as diffuse as any I've heard of Catoire - I just wish that for once, he'd coin a good tune that you could actually remember and hum.

    But I admire your perseverance with and dedication to this composer. PS would be a poorer place if we not all did have our pet composers. It sounds very well played.
     
  14. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,152
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Chief Operating Officer, retired
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    Last Name:
    April
    First Name:
    David
    Hi Nathan,

    Welcome back! I'm glad you enjoyed my latest Catoire entry here. A good thing about Piano Society is that everything is organized so well. As you know, if you just go to Composers on the homepage, then to Catoire, you'll be quickly up to speed. From my first encounter with Catoire I developed an affinity to his music, and I've been playing it ever since. I think once it gets into your blood, there's no way to get it out. It's just so hauntingly beautiful.

    Thanks for listening and your compliment on my playing. (I thought the recording session would drive me crazy, but I survived it. :lol:)

    David
     
  15. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,152
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Chief Operating Officer, retired
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    Last Name:
    April
    First Name:
    David
    Hi Chris,

    I agree with you. If one cannot derive the true essence of a composer's piece, intellectually and emotionally conceptualize it, and play effectively according to artistic intent, then it simply cannot be put across to the audience--even with a prodigious technique.

    Well, if you want a memorable tune from Catoire, you might not find one, given his idiom. And it's more challenging in another way. When I'm practicing one of his pieces, I swear that every time I open the score, it looks brand new to me! But once I'm enveloped in the glorious sounds of it all, it matters not. I just relearn the piece each time I'm at the piano. :lol:

    Thanks for your compliment on my playing. There are a couple of slips in there. But as you know, I record only in full takes, no editing. To me it sounds more authentic and exciting that way. Plus the likelihood is that if I were to re-record to fix a slip, then one would only crop up elsewhere. I think it was Horowitz who once said something to this effect: "If an artist plays a piece 1,000 times and approaches fully achieving his performance goals just once, then he is indeed a very lucky pianist."

    Tomorrow I start the next Catoire piece. Can't wait to see what he has in store for me this time!

    David
     
  16. felipesarro

    felipesarro New Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2008
    Messages:
    916
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    System Analyst, for now
    Location:
    Brazil
    well... I love the beginning of Soirée d'hiver Op. 2 no. 3. Quite a memorable tune for me.
     
  17. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,152
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Chief Operating Officer, retired
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    Last Name:
    April
    First Name:
    David
    Hi Felipe,

    Funny you should mention that. Last night I was also thinking that my statement on this might have been too much of a generalization. Certainly the early opus numbers sound more conventional, straightforward and predictable than the later ones, as they were actually student projects. Once Catoire left formal studies in composition and focused on composing though, his idiom evolved very quickly indeed. Sometimes when I hear his amazing polyphonic lines, I think of one of his musical heros, Wagner. I believe that this Chant No. 2 has that same kind of streaming vocal texture.

    David
     
  18. felipesarro

    felipesarro New Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2008
    Messages:
    916
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    System Analyst, for now
    Location:
    Brazil
    I find quite offensive to consider his early opus as mere student pieces. They are much more than that.
    Because he changed style when mature, it doesn't mean that his early pieces were only a training for his late days.

    Soirée d'hiver, for example, has such a "strong personality" (I mean... it is not similar to any other composer I know. It's pretty much "Catoire" himself, though tonal with some impressionistic flavour in the middle section.)

    On the other hand, I think that this Chant you just recorded has a little Scriabin in it.
     
  19. felipesarro

    felipesarro New Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2008
    Messages:
    916
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    System Analyst, for now
    Location:
    Brazil
    hm...
    I think it's too obvious that I really love Soirée d'hiver.
    hehe
     
  20. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,152
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Chief Operating Officer, retired
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    Last Name:
    April
    First Name:
    David
    Hi Felipe,

    The three Morceaux of Op. 2 (including "Soiree d'Hiver") resulted from a single lesson with Rimsky-Korsakov, and the Op. 3 Caprice from studies with Liadov. Most consider those efforts to have occurred during Catoire's early training in composition. That's not to say they are not very good pieces. They are very good, very enjoyable to hear, and you play "Soiree d'Hiver" admirably. Catoire's idiom, however, further evolved as he matured, as is true with many composers. I hope that better clarifies what I am trying to say. It was certainly not my intention to offend in any way. If I misspoke, I apologize for that.

    David
     

Share This Page