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Franz Schubert: An den Mond & Gretchen am Spinnrade

Discussion in 'Submission Room' started by musicusblau, Jul 29, 2015.

  1. andrew

    andrew Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist

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    I have to agree that the singer is flat on a few occasions (not by much apart from a couple of places). I think I get that feeling more when she's in a lower register. I also agree with your comment about the timbre of her voice affecting the perception of pitch. She does have a nice, sonorous voice, which compensates for any minor problems and it's definitely a worthwhile performance and recording overall. Your piano playing is good, particularly in Gretchen.
     
  2. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Hi Andrew,
    thank you for your feedback. It seems realistic to me. I'm glad to have found a singer with such a beautiful voice. It' s a great pleasure, though we first had to do a lot of basic work, which she did very ambitiously.
     
  3. Didier

    Didier Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Yes but the separation shall be kept moderate for the listening being comfortable.

    No. You shall put the mono voice track on the left channel and on the right channel of an empty stereo track, then change the relative gain between both channels to set the piano where you want in the left-right sector. It is slightly on right in my mix. Then do the same with the piano track and another empty stereo track. The piano is slightly on left in my mix. Then mix both stereo stereo track by setting the gain of each in order to get a convenient balance between the voice and the piano.
    A cardioid microphone has shy lows at a distance.
    The voice was much present in the piano track (which you might have avoided by putting the piano microphone closer to the piano or by steering the null of its cardioid directivity pattern, the rear direction, towards the singer). Then boosting a frequency range where the piano was more dominant is a way to reinforce the piano more than the voice.
    Anyway a recording is not the reality. :)

    Don't wait for your next life ! It might never happen. Do you remember your previous one ? :wink:
    There are microphones that are much cheaper than your excellent Neumann's ... And nearly as good in our non professional context. Even German ones: give a try to the Behringer B5 for instance, about 80 € for one. (At this price, only the brand, possibly the design also, may be German.)

    I have a new one nearly ready. I am waiting to be in the right mood for recording it. I should wait for the visit of the technician in fall because the air humidity close to 70% has made my piano slightly (to my ears, may be strongly to other ones) out of tune.
     
  4. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Didier wrote:
    I´m trying to get that. What exactly do you mean with "left-right sector"? Do you mean I should copy the piano only in the left or only in the right sector or in both? And what do you mean with "to change the relative gain between both channels"? Sorry, but I´m not so skilled in these matters like you. But I ache to understand it and to improve my recordings next time.

    This I have understood! Phew, at least a few things I understand! :D
    Yes, the "piano-mic" was farer away from the piano with half direction to the singer. I really admire how you find these things out.

    I agree to that. And it´s nice to have the possibilities to influence the sound by different recording methods. Generally I like to experiment with that.

    Don´t you remember, as we were sitting at the harpsichord ìn 18. century at court of Friedrich the Great and you said to me: "when there will be a possibility in future to keep our four hands playing, than I will recommend you a Behringer B5 in addition to your Neumanns"? :wink: :lol: Of course, this just is a joke.
    If I would buy me an additional microphone I also would have to buy a new mixing console, because my one has only 2 inputs for microphones. (It´s a Phonic AM220). May be one nice day I could buy a Behringer B5 together with a Behringer Xenyx mixing console with four inputs. What do you think about that?
    I have some questions:
    If I also would buy Reaper, would it recognize all three channels and show it directly on the screen? (I only have two cables going out from the mixing console to the sound card (audiophile 192) of my computer.) And what, if doing cuts? I suppose, to cut three tracks is more complicated than to cut only two, right? (Which also often is not easy!) Is it possible to do cuts in Reaper?

    So, I´m looking forward to fall! :)
     
  5. Didier

    Didier Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    It would work but only a stereo signal would be send to the computer because the mixing is done by the console. A multitrack audiointerface can send more than 2 tracks to the computer through USB link. Behringer proposes the U-PHORIA UMC404.. Its has four microphone inputs . Its price is less than 150 €. I do know it but it seems good.

    Reaper would recognize any number of tracks provided that the computer is fitted out with an interface that send these tracks to the computer. You current stereo interface has only two analog inputs. So it is not convenient for recording with more than 2 microphones (except maybe if you would use the digital inputs in combination with a digital output microphone preamp). Reaper is not an audio editor as powerful like Wavelab. But you can launch Wavelab from Reaper for editing any track. However it may be simpler first to mix in Reaper in order to get a stereo file, then to edit this file in Wavelab.
     
  6. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Thank you very much for answering my questions, Didier. :D You only forgot my first questions concerning the editing with my usual equipment. But next time, when I will do a recording with a singer or another instrument again, I will try to do it in the sense you have described above as well as I can. I think, I will buy this additional equipment one nice day (when I will have money for that).
     
  7. Didier

    Didier Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Both. Transform the mono piano track in a stereo track by copying the mono track on the left channel and on the right channel of an empty stereo track. Of course this stereo track sounds like the mono track: it sounds still mono. You hear the piano at the middle of the stereo sector.

    Select the left or the right channel and change its gain by means of the 'Change the gain' tool in the 'Processing' menu of Wavelab 5. I guess that it is the same in Wavelab 6. After doing this, the left and right channel are no longer identical because their levels are different, which you can check by means of the 'Global analysis' option available from the Analysis menu. Then you hear the piano shifted to left, if the left channel level is higher, or to right, if the right channel level is higher.
     
  8. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Thank you very much, Didier! That was very helpful. I think, I have understood all and I will try it next time. :)
     
  9. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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