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F. Chopin - Ballade no.3, A flat major

Discussion in 'Submission Room' started by sejra, Jul 1, 2009.

  1. sejra

    sejra New Member Piano Society Artist

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  2. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist

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    You submit your recordings often, yet rarely have you taken time to listen and comment on other members’ recordings. Do you think you are too good for that? Or that you have no time?

    Oh wait, I’m wrong about that. You have commented on another member’s recording, but it was on Youtube where you said insulting, rude, and mean comments on a recording that really is very good and did not deserve anywhere near the kind of reaction from you. So… does that make you feel like a big shot? Do you feel like a man when you say bad and cruel things to other musicians who are trying their hardest to make the best music that they can? Is it fun to hurt someone that way, instead of offering any helpful advice?

    Well, let me tell you some things. You are a good pianist, but you are nothing special. There are hundreds of good pianists around today. And you certainly are not a man, because you have no balls! Very cowardly of you to toss insulting remarks to one of our best members on his/her Youtube channel, yet you say and act nothing like that here on PS. And that’s because you know that we here don’t put up with punks like you.

    Your behavior sickens me and therefore I will not listen to any of your music or put up your files. One of the other admins may do so, but I have better things to do with my time, like giving my attention to better behaved and deserving members.
     
  3. sejra

    sejra New Member Piano Society Artist

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    Hello thanks for this kind comment. I really appreciate that somebody can be so polite and nice person.
    Ok. The truth is that I rarely comment recordings of others pianists. I know it but sometimes it's really hard to say something. Why I post so much recordings here. Because I thought it would be a good idea to have a profile here on pianosociety web. It's page which I can show to some contacts etc. So that I need there good pick of recordings.
    About youtube and musicblau. It was normal comment. Omg, maybe you or musicblau are too much oversensitive to read the words like "Try to sing", or "you have problems with technics" I really feel sorry but I can't help you with it. And what's more.. Even if I write really rude words, it's my choice. But I don't do it. But we are now about youtube... Try to watch the comments bellow my videos. I should be angry, not you or musicblau to who I wrote normal constructive comment which he didn't accepted. The comment isn't there...
    Of course I am the best pianist on the world! Of course I am playing dayly in Carnegie Hall and etc. I travel all around the world and everybody is absolutelly zero with comparsion with me! Only joking. You made me laugh. And you absolutelly haven't understood... I don't know what to think about your persona after this. Are you exhausted from working or what? I've never said it and I haven't thought by this way. But to be honest. Here at pianosociety are plenty and plenty better pianists than me. But they have only a few recordings - but I really honour them and I am happy that the recordings from those people are here. On the other hand here are some worse pianists but they have gigantic library of recordings here and their behavior is behavior of a king. The main problem is in music feeling. I don't feel problems with mistakes, if it isn't too much. But if somebody plays without mistakes and without feeling, it's much worse than somebody would play with mistakes and with feeling. And I think music feeling is part of persona. You play same sensitive as persona you are. That's enough for commenting etc.
    If you would like to kick me of, you can delete my profile. Of course, it's great idea. But I had thought that when you added me to pianosociety you had wanted some more recordings for your page. It's very good here that here is chance to pick from plenty recordings. In the internet there are no sites like this. But do everything as you want and be happy from it. I am quite disgusted... Really good job lady!
     
  4. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist

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    Yes, the purpose of Piano Society is to offer quality recordings and I should not let a member’s raunchy behavior dictate how I deal with him.

    I did not used to hold such negative opinions about you. But when someone slams a friend of mine for no good reason, then I take offense. Your comments on Youtube were all negative and flat out rude and insulting. A little advice for you: 1. Most likely you will become a piano teacher when you are done with your schooling, and therefore you better learn how to critique, advise, and teach in a more appropriate manner. You will not have many students otherwise. 2. You owe my friend an apology.
     
  5. wiser_guy

    wiser_guy New Member

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    I am not aware of what has happened with Andreas (musicusblau) and your commenting on his playing but if Monica is so angry she must have good reasons for it. There is a difference between negative comments or criticism and insult.

    Now, I must admit your Ballade is impressive. There is power and decisiveness in your interpretation. And you manage to convey the appropriate feeling of the music. You are a talented pianist.
     
  6. sejra

    sejra New Member Piano Society Artist

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    Wiser: thank you very much and (now to be honest without jokes) I honour this very much after the conversation up. But this topic should be about my bad behavior so that I am going to continue.

    Pianolady: I know that I have a problem with comunication. If I think something, I usually say it very very honest. And if I thought that he should sing and think about technics, I wrote it simply... It shouldn't have been bad, nasty or rude. I really didn't want it would have been impolite. I wrote only what I thought and I didn't think, if it's nice or not. Ok, I should think about it but it's me... And I think I haven't written something rude and insulting to him. There were no rude words and phrases. But I think that Musicblau should write here something because I really don't know by what I've insulted him. If I've insulted him by my note about singing and technics, it is very regrettable.

    And about my not commenting here. Ok, this is true. I should write something sometimes to the recordings here...
     
  7. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist

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    This is up.
     
  8. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist

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    sejra wrote:
    Your comment was rude and insulting. Don´t play the innocent child here. I have deleted your comment after I have let it for a while on my youtube-channel and you sure know, that I had answered it. Later I have deleted it, because I found it to be too rude. I don´t know, who has written the other comments on your channel. I haven´t done it. May be some people, who have read your comment on my channel? I have many friends there. But I really don´t know, who wrote them.
    Unfortunately I have deleted your nasty comment (also from my computer), because I didn´t want to pollute my hard-disc with such unpolite comments, which just attest the arrogant behaviour of a young and unripe person. So I have no real proof here. BTW, also I got very insulting comments of another youtube-user, containing such words as "you are an asshole" or "a jerk" and similar expressions. Of course, even if I still would have the original text of your comment, it would be no real proof, because I could have invented it! :lol: But I never would do this. So, everything which one writes on the internet is no real "proof", only handwritten documents can be truely considered as such. So, here is statement against statement, but I swear, that I tell the truth. I just copied my text here from the General Forum:

    Here you can read, what I have written to Monica in the General Forum in the thread "next book club reading". I only told her of your comment, while we were at it:
    "Thank you, that you stick by me, though I have to add, that Bohumir Stehlik wrote "only" one longer insulting and only negative critique to my 2nd version of Scherzo no. 3, not several (just because you wrote the plural "comments"). In this one nasty comment he didn´t write one positive word, but only how unmusical and how bad it is, how blocked I am and how many technical problems I have, the other 10 nasty comments came from another user named homerboy488 (http://www.youtube.com/user/homerboy488). And these contained a lot of cuss words like "you are an asshole" or "a jerk" and much more of this "nice stuff". Is this homerboy eventually a friend of Bohumir Stehlik? I don´t know and I absolutely don´t know, who this homerboy488 is, I never have had anything to do with him, and I don´t know his real name. For me this whole story is as mysterious as our novel is at this moment.
    I really also don´t know, what reason Bohumir Stehlik could have to attac me like this. Wether I know him nor have I wrote one word to one of his recordings. I found it to be very coward of Bohumir Stehlik to write such a negative comment on youtube, it would have been much braver, if he would have written it on PS in my thread. But I suppose, he knows, how obnoxious he would make himself with such a comment here. However, my Scherzo isn´t so bad, that it doesn´t deserve any positive word. (And even if it would be, such a comment would be also very unpolite and unadequate, because we all here play just for pleasure and for free and we invest a lot of time [and money for the recording-equipment] for preparing our recordings. So, if I absolutely don´t like the interpretation of someone, and in my case it could be only mainly the interpretation, what could have disturbed him, because I care very much for the text of the score, one should keep his mouth, nobody is forced to listen to someone, whos interpretation he absolutely doesn´t like) You know, I´m a friend of critical advices and factual critics, which are based on the score. But nasty comments I just delete on youtube and I do block the user, who writes them (one has this option on youtube). I find it to be too silly to start a "battle of cuss words" there or anywhere else.
    I personally consider Bohumir Stehlik as someone, who isn´t a member of this site, because a member of this nice site shouldn´t behave so nastily. I have nothing more to say to him."

    sejra wrote:
    This statement only underlines just your arrogant and selfish manner IMO, because you think, you can judge, who is a worse pianist than you and what is "without feeling", so you seem to be able to judge, what is the right feeling, like you did in your comment on my 3rd Scherzo by Chopin. If you write me, that I´m playing with a wrong expression you know, of course, what is the absolute right expression (and tempo). I personally don´t feel spoken to by these words you wrote above, because I do play with feeling, even if you don´t like my manner of feeling. Of course, I try to avoid mistakes in recordings, but I mostly do some of them, but my hobby is to edit recordings, I just like this, and I have written at many places, that my recordings in many cases contain some cuts, which contain the improved passages. IMO it´s not bad to do some mistakes, if a recording is expressively and musically played. And if you read, what I wrote to Felipe Sarro f.ex., who told me, that he isn´t so demanding concerning youtube-recordings like me, you see, that I´m not as arrogant like you: I said to him, that it is good, that we all are different and we have made some jokes with each other and I appreciate his recordings nevertheless. I really consider him to be a very good musician, may be even better than me, but I really don´t want to compare here any member with another one like you did with yourself. I personally wouldn´t dare to judge myself so surely and give me generously a place in the "middle-level" of all pianists here like you do for yourself above.

    Come on, tell us names, who on this site (all) is a worse pianist than you? And who behaves like a king? Me, Monica, Chris (who prefers to play his excellent Bach-recordings with not too much emotion, but with a more "neutral expression" (meant by me in the best sense of the word) or which other members?
    Come on, be brave and not so coward! :!:

    sejra wrote:
    To your first sentence: have you ever heard of politeness, decent and human behaviour? To your second sentence: This is a lie. You do it!
     
  9. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist

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    You are so right, my friend. You really don´t have to take to side with one of me or sejra, but I hope you understand, that I´ll not comment on sejras pieces here.
     
  10. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Well it's nice to have another decent flame war in these quarters again. It's been a while ago since emotions flared up as high as this, and it was worth the wait :wink:

    Seriously now, I have not seen that Youtube remark so I can't really take sides. But I guess it must have been more than just a clumsily-worded blunt remark which was not meant the way it sounded.

    Indeed Bohumir, from your previous postings here, I had you down as a brilliant and talended pianist, but also as a rather arrogant young sod with little consideration for anybody else. This may be only perception... but on the Internet you will be judged by what you write. Ultimately, it's all about the music, but as others said, there is also something like good manners. I've offended some people here in the past (being a worse pianist with tons of recordings who likes to behave like a king) but not quite in this way, it seems.

    It would be a pity if your excellent recordings would be gone from this site, but it maybe there will be no other option if you do not change your attitude. It's a bit lame to hide behind your so-called 'problem with communication'. If you have such a problem at all (which I don't believe) it's all the more reason to weigh your words and not flap out things that you may come to regret. Then again you don't even realize that you said anything out of order.

    Anyway, this Ballade is very well played. There are many good things and for a live recording (I assume it is) very few slips. Well done. But I have to side with the others in no longer wishing to comment on your recordings, however great they may be. I assume this won't bother you much :wink:
     
  11. juufa72

    juufa72 New Member Piano Society Artist

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    ...is it that time of the month?
     
  12. sejra

    sejra New Member Piano Society Artist

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    Hello there once again.
    I was thinking a lot, if I should write something more or if I should let this to die in time. After this longer time, after talking a lot with my friends about this I decided to answer once more.
    Maybe it isn't believable for you but it touched me quite lot. I don't want to be selfish and arrogant. And I am trying to not be like that.
    I wrote the comment on youtube because I was looking for a recording of this scherzo because of my friend who played it. It was luck that I found your recording. You are probably not used to have a lot of critic. I am quite used to have a lesson with my teacher when she says me that almost everything is bad. It's good school. You probably haven't it. This seems to me like "emperors new clothes". This forced me to listen your another recordings. It's much better, I can say I like it. So I think this recording was only bad luck. But I commented it how I fel it. It's big pity that you deleted the comment from everywhere. I think that you probably mix two or three comments to one. But back to your scherzo, if you opened this big offtopic. I listened it with my girlfriend (swedish pianist) and after the listening I asked her a question "What is positive on this recording?". After quite long time she answered "He has really good instrument". After that I opened scores and decided that you don't follow it at all. If you wouldn't follow editors notes, it's ok. But you don't follow the composer! You don't follow Chopin! So that because of it I wrote comment like this and I can repeat here, if you want. But I listened your other recordings and your another recording of the scherzo and it's much much better! It's good.
    Who cares, if you edit recordings or not. You could edit recording at all but still is hearable, if you are good musician or bad. Who are talking about mistakes? I wrote that I don't care about mistakes, if it isn't too much. Of course, you haven't so much mistakes there but I can see big problems, probably the tempo is much slower because of the technics. I can see that you have pain in your hands (of course you can write that you haven't any pain and your hands are absolutelly free). So that once again: I wrote the comment because of this.
    Of course I can't judge myself. I haven't writen anything like that! You are totally wrong. I can judge two people because I hear it - a person who isn't musician can hear it (like recording technician in Bergen studio, he don't know notes but he has perfect hearing and heart). I can't judge myself and somebody. It never be objective. But it seems that you can judge yourself because of you words. All of the second part of your writing is one by YOU. Like you are saying "I, Me, I, Me". Of course I have read your CV with "I, Me, I" but I wish it's only bad luck. You can't be like that, I don't believe... So I won't tell you any names who's better or worse because I really don't know it and I really don't want to know it. For me it isn't so important who's better or worse. I don't care. Maybe you care who plays better or worse than you, if you can write something like this. You judged yourself very sure... But I can say that you behave like a king. After your last comment.
    It's big pity that you have people here who know you and I have absolutely nobody. But you woke up in me bad feeling from you. I feel sick after reading something like this. I feel sick that you can't stand one negative comment. I don't care, if you wrote something good/wrong about my recordings. I would accept both and be sure that I wouldn't do something like you have done.
    So after this; I don't like you. I am risking the deleting of my profile here, of course. Now some people decided to not comment my recordings. What do you want more? Sorry but don't await any apologies from me. Maybe I wanted to apologize you before your last comment. But after that everything has gone. I will defend myself but not by your way of blind shooting. But I wish you good luck and many of successes. It's pity that one comment of the recording which is little bit another than others does this.
     
  13. jlr43

    jlr43 Member Piano Society Artist

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    You're obviously being ignored by the admins (and for good reason). That's why I decied to write this response.

    First of all, I don't quite know why someone who thinks he's professional and is going in to music bothers to worry about or comment on an amateur's playing (especially on a silly hack site like Youtube).

    Second of all, I finally decided to listen to the playing here because this discussion thread has rather annoyed me, and I wanted to see whether there was any merit to your rather arrogant posturing. This playing of this piece is crude, sodden, and technically and musically inadequate. There are numerous details that aren't right (at the beginning you, for instance, completely rush that dotted rhythm in measure 6 and the trillo isn't clear in measure 3, also, all the dotted rhythms are totally inaccurate and uneven. The texture is generally sodden, overpedaled, and unclear. Your tempo is completely uneven for the duration of the piece. I can't even really hear a tempo in any of the various sections. You're obviously slowing down whenever you need to to grab the notes, which is professionally unacceptable, and even then there are quite a few mistakes (though certainly not too many if the playing were good). The fast middle section, which should be played in the high manner of the French jeu perle, is completely smeared. Most of your accents are wrong and tend toward the second beat where they are written clearly by Chopin on the first beat (any good ear should hear them anyway). The climactic entrance into the coda (as well as the coda itself) doesn't sound like a passionate love affair; it sounds like elephants storming across a field, for it's so pounded and heavy. The list could go on for pages.


    Anyway, you needn't start talking to someone about going to get technique or about singing lines (most of which are crudely overshadowed hy inadequate balance between the fingers of the hand --stomping of the thumb and second finger). You have a lot of work to do.
     
  14. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist

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    sejra wrote:
    Also with this reply your attempt fails, alas, and I will show you why.

    I´m 38 years old, teacher, I have my examination and I have probably got more critic in my life you can imagine. How do you come to this absurd imagination I´m not used to critic, sometimes I have got a lot of critics also on this site here and I always (or mostly) felt them to be constructive. If you would have read some comments to my Bach-recordings or other works here you would know, how much critics I have got (together with very positive comments) and how much I have worked on the points, which were item of these critics and how much elaborated re-recordings I have done here on PS. I have also got a lot of critic when I was at your age and studied music at university and I think, I could learn something from it, though I do not affirm, that I´m still the perfect and ready pianist, of course. I´m sure I´m not and to be a pianist means a development for the whole life.
    Your critic was just insulting, irreverent and rude, that means unconstructive in every aspect. You didn´t give me advices on details or certain aspects, but with rude and insulting words you damned my whole recording.


    Here you are arrogant again. Who are you to judge, if I followed the composer and if my recording was "only bad luck". I´m sure I followed most of the prescriptions of the score, it´s only the tempo, dynamic, agogic and other matters of interpretation which are not your personal taste, that´s all. Please, stop it, I´m sick of it. And I have really no desire for a repetition of all your rude words again.

    You must be a true visionary. :lol: My hands feel very well and quite relaxed.


    It´s good, that you know, that I behave like a king, so you don´t have to think about yourself.

    Thanks for the compliment, but that´s not my blemish.

    And again your attempt not be arrogant and selfish fails, nothing was "blind" in my comment above. It was seriously sophisticated and elaborated and I still mean all what I wrote above. I would write it exactly again like it is.

    And now it´s better to end our dialogue, I think.
     
  15. sarah

    sarah New Member

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    If nobody minds, I have something to say. :D

    Bohumir, I find this discussion rather amusing – not because I enjoy “word wars,” but because you can’t seem to be able to apologize. To be able to say the words, “I’m sorry, I’ve behaved in a way offensive to God and man.”

    Listen, we all have made mistakes in our time… some worse than others. And when we do the wrong thing, it’s imperative that we have humility. There’s no way around it. So, I suggest to you, as someone who has her fair share of faults and has made many mistakes, be a man, admit you’re wrong, and apologize.
     
  16. sejra

    sejra New Member Piano Society Artist

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    After one and half year I am back on a half step. I would like to say sorry, I apologise. I can say sorry but in certain causes it is very hard. The one and half year I was thinking about this everything here and I was looking at the icon of this site in my bookmarks. I wanted to apologise but the other side of me did not wanted to show that I had lost on all of the lines. I am able to apologise, to say sorry, but I am not able to loose. I knew it had been very stupid from me. Sorry. Hope it will be forgiven sometimes in the future or at least forgotten.

    Sending named apologies to Mr. Andreas Pfaul

    Have a nice time.

    /B
     
  17. Terez

    Terez New Member

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    Hey Bohumir,

    Thanks for writing this. I have always enjoyed your sensitive recordings, and I would be sad to see you join the list of those to disappear from PS.
     
  18. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    I appreciate you checking back in to apologize, after reconsidering the argument for a sufficiently long time. Apologizing seems to be extremely difficult for you - why is that ? Let me guess... some people are just more talented, proud and stubborn than others.

    Anyway, we can leave all that behind if you are sincere about this. In that case, welcome back. We'll see if we get into the same kind of discussion again. I hope not (though I have to admit it is quite amusing :p )
     
  19. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist

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    sejra wrote:
    Now, after nearly 14 days after you have written this I have seen these lines by pure hazard. So, I ask me, why haven´t you written me a pm?
    But now I see this hazardly I will give you my answer: it is not forgotten, of course, but it is forgiven!
    Thank you for your apologies and welcome back to PS!

    As Chris wrote I hope, we will not get into the same kind of discussions again!

    techneut wrote:
    I do know things, which are more amusing, Chris. :?
     
  20. felipesarro

    felipesarro New Member

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    System Analyst, for now
    Location:
    Brazil
    ICQ:
    41099971
    WLM:
    felipesarro@yahoo.com.br
    LOCATION:
    Brazil
    Re:

    it was said here that PS should focus on music, and not on people's behavior. well... I disagree.

    this website is maintained by two people in their free time. it allows free webhosting for pianists, as long as their recordings are submitted to the audition room and approved. it also subsists due to donation and the goodwill of the community.

    IDEALLY, it should only focus on music. but considering the whole thing, it's quite annoying for mainly professional pianists who arrive here, deposit their recordings and disappear forever. PianoSociety DOESN'T WORK FOR HIRE! it's not here to SERVE the pianists! it's quite unfair that pianists take advantage of it, the free hard work of the moderators, and don't even care for them or the community!

    I think in the past PS should beg for recordings. now it is more popular and has a lot of them, and one more of Chopin is not its ultimate need. the conclusion is: it's quite in the moderators' (or the community's) right to allow or disallow someone for extra musical reasons, even astrological reasons!

    by the way, this is a wonderful performance! it is completely satisfying and I have nothing to complain about.
     

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