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Erik Satie: Sonneries de la Rose + Croix, no.1-3(complete)

Discussion in 'Submission Room' started by musicusblau, Aug 23, 2009.

  1. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Hi friends,
    I think, the reverberation-settings of these recordings fits very well to the structure of the music, but on the other hand, it disturbs the nice natural sound of my piano and in that direction goes also Alfonsos argument above. I agree to this, it fits to the music, but the natural sound of my Grotrian-Steinweg-grand-piano seems quite falsified. So, there seems to be a conflict between the structure of the compositions and the ideal of a natural sound and in my recordings above I decided to give the structure of the music the advantage, which I still consider as a good possibility! All in all the reverberation-settings are not the most important aspect of a recording for me.

    But as an alternative, which gives the ideal of to conserve the natural sound of the piano a chance, I do post here all three movements with an editing, which contains less reverb. For all the fans of a less-reverb-version this is an opportunity to listen again to these nice movements. :wink:

    BTW, I like controversies like this one, they are much more interesting than the "nice, sounds fine"-comments, and I like much more to receive 18 comments or so instead of two or three. :lol: :wink:

    So, for me this is an ideal thread (like in the good old times, when we discussed some of my "revolutionary" Bach-interpretations. :wink: ) So, once more thank you for all your comments.

    Below you see my new reverberation-settings of Bricasti. Didier, with the old version (no. 5) of WaveLab the rendering-process seems to be a bit better, but also there is still a loss of reverberation after the rendering-process. :( Like you did in your last recording I have choosen Berliner Hall, which indeed seems to be clearer than the others.)
     
  2. Franz Josef Streuff

    Franz Josef Streuff New Member Piano Society Artist

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    Satie

    Dear Andreas, a new surprise to me you play Satie! The other surprise is this: Satie's piece is interrupted every two or three seconds, but the remaining sounds are beautiful. I was led to You Tube where I could not comment. I don't know what happened. best wishes Franz-
     
  3. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Dear Franz,
    thank you for your kind and encouraging comment. May be you would have to wait, until the video has uploaded completely first, then to play it again from the beginning completely.
    I´m glad you enjoyed it.
     
  4. Francois de Larrard

    Francois de Larrard Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Hello Andreas,
    I have too little time to go to PS as often that I would like, so that I am coming late in this discussion. I just wanted you to know that I listened the three pieces with great interest, reading the score at the same time: your interpretation is just neat, and I understand you tried to add reverb. As a matter of fact, these pieces would sound very nicely in a church, as stressed by Monica. By the way, it was said (by you, I think) that these pieces look to the future (XXth and XXIth centuries). To me, they also look backward to some (imaginary) middle-age music. Especially the unison parts who sound very gregorian. Also, the fact of having no measure refers to modal music... While listening your 'Sonneries', I was remembering Promenade from the Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition, who can be viewed as a piano transcription of Orthodox songs.
    In this category of early, religious-inspired Satie, do you know the 'Ogives' ? I like also these pieces. When I was a child, I remember my piano teacher playing these pieces on a cathedral organ. This was really strange and great !
    I am presently preparing some Satie's pieces that I will submit one of those days... Thank you for celebrating this composer for whom I have a special affection.
     
  5. Didier

    Didier Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Andreas,

    I found that thee was too much reverberation in your first recordings. The chord attacks were to smoothed. In the new version, I listened only to no.1. IMO it's too dry... :oops:

    I added a bit of reverb to you second version (Bricasti IR North Church, predelay 35 ms) and found the result better to my taste.
     
  6. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Hi Didier,
    thank you for this beautiful reverberation, which really seems ideal to me. :D Alas, I can´t use the very nice Bricasti-effects, you gave us the links to, because the rendering-function doesn´t work in my WaveLab 6.0. Very often the program crashed down, if I do use it. Even in the case, it does not crash down, the effect is not rendered into the file at last.
     
  7. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    This indeed sounds a lot better than the initial offerings indeed, providing the desired sacral and spectral effect without sounding like being recorded in a vast grotto.

    I still maintain that the initial chord (and some thereafter) is not together. The RH comes down before the LH. Minor detail, though.
     
  8. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    I agree to that. Alas, I wasn´t able to produce this very good effect with the Bricasti, because the rendering-function doesn´t work in my program, so they are useless! If I add an additional reverb to the ambience-effect, which is rendered somehow in the recording (but not the original degree of reverb), than this falsifies too much the original sound of my piano, I have found out.

    In this case you are to be proved correct! I have recognized it still as I was listening to my unedited original then. Seems I have not noticed it the first time because of the great degree of reverberation! :lol:
    But on the other side: what does it bring to me, that I know this now? Should I re-record this piece? Would you put up the re-recording? Or shall I just be mad on you, because you have told me that here in public? Do I have a reason to be thankful for that? It only would be useful for me to know it, if I redo the piece and so I would have a practical reason to be thankful!
    (You see, I´m very much on the "philosphic trip" at this time, sorry for that. :wink: )
     
  9. Didier

    Didier Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    With the authorization from Andreas, both remaining pieces processed like the first one (+ a bit of noise gating on the third one).
     
  10. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Whatever ! It is fine with me either way.
     
  11. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Should the versions on the site be replaced by the 'less reverb' versions now ? I would recommend it, but it's your show. Please advise.
     
  12. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Techneut wrote:
    Please, replace the my versions by the versions Didier has made. They are so beautiful and do sound ideally to me. Thank you!
     
  13. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Andreas, I have replaced these as you requested. At least I think so. I am right now a bit confused on which files I was to grab - I took the last three in this thread. Is this right? I did not yet delete the attachments. And btw - I like the sound now - it is more clear.
     
  14. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Thank you, Monica, but when I click on the links, which lead to my recordings on the main-site I do hear my old versions, which have too much reverb. Yes, you should take the last three editings of the movements 1-3 Didier has posted in this thread, please. Didiers file-names are the following:
    1) erik_satie_sonneries_de_la_rose_croix_no_1_a bit more reverb.mp3
    2) erik_satie_sonneries_de_la_rose_croix_no_2_not so less_reverb.mp3
    3) erik_satie_sonneries_de_la_rose_croix_no_3_not so less_reverb.mp3

    Didiers reverberation is very tasteful and gives us the true feeling of listening in a cathedral, with not too much and not too less reverb. I will try a new installation of WaveLab as Didier has recommended to me, may be then I will be able to render the Bricasti-effects into my recordings next time by myself.:roll: I really do like some of them and I´m angry at my computer, because it makes such stupid problems and I really don´t know why. :evil:
     
  15. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    I am angry at my computer too because I do not know why these last files are not replacing the first ones. There should have been no problem since I'm the one who processed them all. And what baffles me is that on the List of New Recordings, the three files are the last files that we want. But when you go to the Satie page and click them, they play your first files. Also another weird thing is that the duration times on the List versus the page on the site are totally different. I am at a loss to explain any of this, but I will go back to square one and download the last three files here on the thread, and then re-upload them again and see if anything changes.

    To be continued....
     
  16. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    No point in being angry at your computer. It's only doing what it is designed to do :wink:
     
  17. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Andreas - I don't know what is wrong. I re-did everything and I think the link still plays the old files.
    Sorry - I can't seem to make the switch. I'll try one more time....
     
  18. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Thank you for your effort, Monica, but I think, in some cases it´s better to give up the fight with the computer, because Chris is right and all the anger with it is useless. :roll:
    I will not die, if the old files stay there, though its a pity somehow, because Didiers versions are so much better...
    I think, one day I also will re-edit my video-versions on Youtube with Didiers files.
     
  19. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    This is all fixed now, it was a problem with the naming of the files.

    The timings on the 'New' list are still wrong though, because the new files are VBR (Variable Bit Rate). I can't calculate the duratoin of a VBR file (don't thik there is a way to do so withut actually playing them).

    Didier, and everybody else too, please make sure to attach only CBR (Constant Bit Rate) files,
    sampled at 44 Khz, and between 128 and 192 Kbps compression.
     
  20. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Thank you very much, Chris and Monica. :D
    I haven´t expected to make you such an effort with this and I feel a bit painful because of it. :oops:
    I have done a re-recording of the first movement, in which the chords of the begining are better together and it still has a nice reverberation similar to Didiers one. This re-recording I will post tomorrow, today it´s too late for the upload.
    I have tried a re-installation of WaveLab, but I yet can´t render the Bricasti effects. :( Fortunately I have another cathedral-effect in WaveLab, which is also very nice. :) (The function is named "True Reverb" and is a wave-plugin, Didier. Tomorrow you will see it.)

    And, btw, I have recorded the CS of the Gnossiennes by Satie, which I will also post tomorrow or on monday. :)
     

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