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Erik Satie: Sonneries de la Rose + Croix, no.1-3(complete)

Discussion in 'Submission Room' started by musicusblau, Aug 23, 2009.

  1. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Hi friends,
    these pieces by Satie sound from the harmonical view much more strangely and "revolutionary" than the moderated "Gnossiennes". It will not be everyones taste, but on YouTube I didn´t find a complete recording of the "Sonneries de la Rose + Croix", but only the "Air Du Grand Prieur", on PS I´m the first, who publishs them, I think.

    Here I offer the complete set of the "Sonneries de la Rose Croix" for you. It will not be everyones taste, I´m quite sure. Satie founded a quite modern style in these pieces and here he was much consequenter as in the "Gymnopédies" or the "Gnossiennes".

    So, if you don´t like them, just close your ears. They demand a "long breath" for the player as for the listener. I like their meditative and contemplative style, though after the third one I was a bit tired of them and wanted to play something like the third movement of our Mozart-four-hands-sonata or something like this. :wink:

    Here are the links to the videos and the complete titles:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruixTeqL ... annel_page (Sonneries de la Rose + Criox, no. 1: Air Of The Order, Air De L´Ordre, Lent et détaché)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaCyeMBA ... annel_page (Sonneries de la Rose + Croix no. 2, Lent, Air Of The Grand Master, Air Du Grand Maitre)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84bX_9E3 ... annel_page (Sonneries de la Rose + Croix no 3, Détaché Lent, Air Of The Head Prior, Air Du Grand Prieur)

    Below there are the audio-tracks of the videos as mp3-files.
    I have choosen the "Worchester-Hall"-effect of Bricasti M7. (Didier, there was a problem while rendering the effect, it was not the same degree of reverberation as before the process of rendering, so I had to add more reverberation by WaveLab to it. I have choosen quite much reverberation, because it fits to the sacral and detached sound of the choral-like chords. Just my taste, may be you don´t like it.)


    Satie - Sonneries de la Rose + Croix, 1: Air de l'Ordre
    Satie - Sonneries de la Rose + Croix, II: Air du Grand Maître
    Satie - Sonneries de la Rose + Croix, III: Air du Grand Prieur
     
  2. juufa72

    juufa72 New Member Piano Society Artist

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    What interesting pieces. Though I don't care too much for the reverb, I could easily get used to it. Thanks for sharing.
     
  3. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Sure is something different! (and sorry to say, not my cup of tea)
    Although, I don't think this type of music is meant to be just 'listened to'. It's more like background music to whatever is happening in a service or a meeting. Like in my church, the organist plays some soft music when we are praying, or passing the collection basket.

    As to your sound - I think the reverb setting is a bit too much. I know why you would like some kind of 'echo' effect for this music, but in the high notes my ears hear too much distortion - like the sound has become a flute or chimes or I dunno...something different than a piano. Maybe that's how you wanted it, though.

    Still, interesting to learn about this music - I had not heard of this set before. It is on the site.
     
  4. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Thanks for your comments, Julius and Monica, and thank you, Monica, for having put it up!
    I´m glad you like it, Julius. :D
     
  5. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    I listened to the first one. Your playing, musicality, and dedication cannot be faulted, but the reverb is a bit over the top, I agree with the others.

    I can't help finding this music boring... it focuses on one idea, goes on much too long and does not develop in any sense. Maybe it is a foreboding of minimal music - though I generally find that more entertaining and visceral than Satie. It is my private opinion (and many will disagree) that Satie's music is overrated. It's rather trendy and new-age, as it were. I think his influence on modern music, starting with the Groupe des Six, is more caused by his irreverent attitude and his Monty Python'ish humour than anything else. I hugely enjoy the silly texts in some of his pieces, more so than the actual music. Indeed these would work quite well as background music. Being forced to listen to it, I would start to fidget after a while.

    Can't comment on the playing, not knowing these pieces, but it sounds very fine. Although it seems that in the beginning the chords were not as well together as later on.
     
  6. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Thanks for your comment, Chris, I like my reverberation-setting here in these recordings and would do them exactly again like this.

    Techneut wrote:
    I don´t think so!
     
  7. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Hi Andreas,

    While I've played Debussy, Ravel, Faure and a bit of Poulenc, I've not played Satie. While he's reputed to have had a great wit and satirical streak, I've never really discovered that same sophistication in his music. Around 1990 I bought a two-CD set of Satie played by Frank Glazer, a long-time Satie proponent here in the U.S. (He's very elderly now.) I listened to it only once. But that's just my personal bias.

    I heard the whole set you offered here. I very much laud your playing and believe that you do your utmost in serving the composer to elevate his music for the listener. Therein I do find early seeds of minimalism, interesting modal changes, and even an occasional hint of mysticism. Yet by their notation, these pieces plod along endlessly like lost wanderers.

    In short, I believe your playing is excellent in every way, but I find it difficult to warm up to these compositions of Satie. It might be an acquired taste.

    David
     
  8. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Rachfan wrote:
    Thank you, David, I appreciate this. And really I try my utmost - and certainly there are better pianists in the world than me :wink: - in serving the composer to elevate his music for the listener! :D

    That´s also right, David. I was inspired to play some pieces by Satie, because recently during my vacations I have listened to some music of Ludovico Einaudi (a famous contemporary film composer), whos music has exactly the same tees (characteristics) you mentioned above. I read about his music, that in a way his works (the works of L. Einaudi) were inspired also by influences of Erik Satie. And indeed the repetition of certain rhythmic, melodic and chordic structure without any (big) development reminds us of the minimal music of a Phillip Glass, Steve Reich, La Monte Young and Terry Riley (though there are also more or less differences between these composers) and in continuation the Minimal Techno music.
    So, Satie indeed seems to be like an early "founder" of these antiserial music structures. (Though in his time there still wasn´t any serialism, of course.) Also John Cage considered Satie as something like a "father of mind".
    Indeed there is a hint of religious mysticism in his music. Our taste, of course, is coined by an expaction of a certain development in music, that´s what our old masters like Bach, Beethoven, Mozart and so on teach us since centuries and what is typical for our western culture, of course.
    I think, Satie himself must have felt like a lost wanderer in life and world or something like this and he wanted to show us, that something like "the truth" can also be found beyond our usual (western) culture and rules. So, indeed he was something like a "revolutionary" in his music and mind.
    And really, in times of today even Saties music is so old fashioned.
    I like the meditative and contemplative manner of his music, it´s also a way to enjoy music, not only as "background music", like it was described above by Monica and Chris, but also as a kind of valuable music with a worth of its own. But, indeed, if you want to enjoy it, you have to release from the traditional classic and romantic aesthetic of music, that means to release from a traditional expactation of development. That means also to try an attempt to look beyond all your personal feelings and expactations and beyond all musical rules of habitude and to search the truth beyond these matters.
    I have to admit, that I also dislike a bit some progressions of chords in the "Sonneries de la Rose + Croix", especially the strange diminished chords, which are sometimes put in without to be solved in a usual manner. But I´m sure, this is also only, because my taste is coined so much by the traditional music.
    I prefer the "Gnossiennes" to the "Sonneries...", because the harmonic structure is more comfortable and they also have this "minimal" meditative manner. :wink:


    So it is, I have tried to explain the reason above.

    Thanks for your interesting comment, David, it´s always a pleasure to exchange thoughts with you.
     
  9. alf

    alf Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Andreas, you are a constant source of surprise. I'd have never thought you were interested in Satie, and which Satie! Honestly, as many others I see before me, I must say, not my cup of tea. I don't have a lot to say either about your playing, but I have just one remark about the reverb effect: too much! Not for the reverb in itself, but because it utterly spoils the tone fingerprint of your beautiful instrument. Moreover, in the YT videos the reverb sounds even more improbable, given your room's dimension. (But I know you're experimenting the Bricasti).
     
  10. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    If you think so, you think so, Alfonso, that´s o.k., of course. For me this has no real importance.
     
  11. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Hi Andreas,

    Thank you for your expansive explication of Satie and his music. It was very informative, and it was interesting to hear your viewpoints on it as well. I appreciate that!

    David
     
  12. alf

    alf Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    It's just my thought, nothing especially meaningful. I'm a bit allergic to music like that, as I much prefer motivic elaboration, contrapuntal profusion, instrumental inventiveness. I like very much Satie's humour, but this is not the case here!
     
  13. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    My point exactly. Nothing happens in these pieces, mellifluous and mystic as they may be.

    However many people really like this music so it is great that we have some excellent new recordings on the site - even if this particular reverb may not be to everybody's taste ;-)
     
  14. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Techneut wrote:
    In these pieces indeed no bigger developments are intended by the composer, it´s a complete contrary (modern) aesthetic of dissolution of traditional structures. So, Satie was one of those, who prepared the 20th and 21th century. The (musical) developments meanwhile have proceeded and made progress millions of miles further, so that these harmless little pieces really are absolute old-fashioned and nothing "revolutionary" any more in our times. But nevertheless there are yet people, who really feel even these old little pieces yet as an insuperable barriere of taste respective musical aesthetic.
    But tastes ever will stay different and that´s good!

    Thanks for this, Chris. Especially the reverberation is a matter of taste. Of course, Alfonso is right to say, that this grade of reverberation doesn´t fit to the ambience of my living-room, but I have no problem to admit, that I wanted especially for these pieces this higher degree (because of the detached manner of playing the chords) and have add it with full intention by editing the nice Bricasti-effect to my recording (and I really don´t hear any distortions even with my sensitives headphones, like Monica described above, and also the analysis of WaveLab shows no distortions, usually I´m very attentive with such things, while doing my editing). I think, in times of today also this shouldn´t be any more a subject of discussion. Compared with the technical possibilities of our times also my recordings still seem to be old-fashioned, isn´t it?
    I do repeat it: especially for these pieces I would do the reverberation-settings exactly again like I have done. For other pieces, of course, I will choose again a lower degree of reverberation again. But I´ll further do experiments with the new Bricasti-effects. :p
     
  15. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Alf wrote:
    At least it would be possible to consider (examine) these pieces with more humour and open mind than you did above... :lol:
    But somehow I - as a German, who are so well-known for their "beer-like" seriousness in foreign countries - am glad to be able to recognize this! :lol: :wink:
     
  16. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Rachfan wrote:
    I sincerely appreciate you as a partner of dialogue, who is rich in thoughts, competent and has an open mind, my friend! :D
     
  17. Syntaxerror

    Syntaxerror New Member

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    Thanks for sharing, I really like this set. But the reverb... :(
    These pieces reminded me a bit of Morton Feldman; has anyone listened to 'Palais de Mari' ?
     
  18. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    :D :D :D

    :( about your :( :wink:

    Yes, very interesting. And no, I haven´t listen to "Palais de Mari", but thanks for the tip. :wink:
     
  19. alf

    alf Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    But I AM open-minded. Unfortunately, I am also narrow-musical-tasted. :lol:

    No, really, don't worry Andreas, but I hope I can freely express my doubts about the music, when I have any.

    Uh, "beer-like seriousness" is an oxymoron in my book! :lol:
     
  20. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Alf wrote:
    I have no problem with this. :)
     

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