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Discussion in 'Submission Room' started by johnmar78, Sep 25, 2006.
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Chopin Opus 10 No.1
Opus #10 No. 1 is far more difficult than most people seem to believe. Just because the left hand is played in stately octaves, we tend to think this is one of the easier etudes -- such is not the case.
Putting on my teacher's hat:
My first impression is that you've practiced the arpeggios going up the keyboard ... far more than you've practiced them coming down. In truth, it is the DESCENDING portion of each arpeggio group that is more difficult to perform. Why? Because you are forced to use your fourth and fifth fingers much more whilst descending.
There is no doubt that this C Major Etude is a tour de force for the right hand. I sensed that you were running out of steam (endurance) in the second half of the etude. Could this have been a later take after which your fingers had gotten tired?
On dynamics: Beginning in the A-minor section (Measure #17 to #28 ), I suggest that you play that section beginning mezzo forte, both for contrast value, and to save your fingers for II-V-I mini-cadence leading back to C Major in Measure 29. Conservation of energy is best starting at Measure #17, so you can return to the fortissimo at the full-fledged cadence at Measure #39.
Something more needs to be done, dynamically, as your approach the next crescendo to ff at Measure #49.
Lastly, I would suggest, if you are not already doing so, to move your wrists and forearms sideways parallel to the keyboard more than you are currently doing. The idea is to position the wrist in such a way that one can drop the fingers over the correct note, rather than having to stretch the fingers left and right in these spread-out arpeggios. Perhaps that would lend more control to the sound of your right hand.
Still, fine work -- I believe most people who have not tried to play this etude at performance tempo are blissfully UNaware of its difficulty.
I have fixed up the mistakes yesterday by re do the op10 no1. I only did 2 takes. 3,and 4 would be tired on the form arm.
Wait mine latest op10/1, it was much better than the one you herad.
Now days, op10/1 and op53 is the prequisite for daily warm ups(2X)..by 2007 when I doing my next recording, it would be much better polished......unlimited improvement(I know)..its a life time...
I feel your pain jm, this etude is dear to my heart. I've got an enormous lot to say about this piece. Too much for right now. You've got some practicing to do, but we're ok with that. Anyone who even attempts this etude should get a healthy round of applause! Hip, hip. HOORAY FOR JOHNMAR!
I agree with jcfeli. Playing this etude is like trying to ride a unicycle backwards on a icy tightrope while juggling hot pokers and reciting Shakespeare while chewing gum without benefit of a net. Normal piano pieces have some margin for error. This is not a normal piece. It has no margin whatsoever. Any little anomaly throws it out of balance. It took me three years to master this piece. And master it, I did! I can't wait until I get my Edirol!
Here's a big hint: You must learn 10/1 and 10/2 together, they're symbiotic. Don't learn one without the other. Your rate of progress will increase.
The Polonaise...Your rhythm is very uneven, wobbly. I noticed that your rhythm evened out with the octave section. Why do you think that happened? Out of ten I give musicality a 7 and technique a 3 (except I give technique in the octave section a solid 7)
I have an enormous lot to say about your performance, plenty of it good, plenty not so good. Gotta run!
I opened up a fortune cookie it said, "Lengthy study-sits and working with hands will enrich your pallette" I didn't make that up! :lol:
as time goes by I will polish that op53 even further.
I have already improved op10/1 but its in wav file..for some reason I can not open at work...so it might check it again tonoght...
I think I take too much libreties in timming or you could say LACK of rhymic measure/???
I should buy more fortune cokies..its leading us in the right direction....
Slow down! :x Try recording the etude 10/1 @M.M.108 or even M.M.88. Go for clarity first. The piece is at the "diamond in the rough" stage. It has potential that is not yet mature. This will take time. Forget about playing it fast right now, limit your tempo to 116. Once you've attained the correct coordination, playing it fast will be easy. Trust me, I've been exactly where you are now!
This is what I want to hear in your next recording of the 10/1:
1 A tempo in which you are in total technical control. Missing some notes is OK, but there were too many to justify the fast tempo. You must choose a tempo that puts you in control of the piece, not vice versa. Here's a bit of advice. If, before you play this etude, you feel your arms get a little tense or you feel a bit of doubt as to whether you'll be able to keep up with yourself, then your chosen tempo is too fast. The correct tempo will be known to you when you can get out of bed first thing, go to your piano, play the etude and go back to sleep. If your arms burn, your tempo is too fast. If you get tense during a performance, too fast. When played at the correct tempo, this etude will eventually be as natural as breathing. To learn this, I play it every day, three times in a row, in the morning, at whatever tempo works, no note errors allowed. My only goal in these 'breakfast sessions' is to remove any physical or mental tension. Tempo is irrelevant.
2 Voicing the left hand melody. The octaves are best thought of as a choral accompaniment. The bass is where the melody is. Play it as you wish, within the constraints of the dynamic markings. Use your imagination to create a sense of narrative with the left hand. There's a story to be told in that bass line. Figure out what you want to say and then say it.
3 Strong emphasis on the downbeats. This piece would be better suited to have the time signature 2/1 and the tempo 44. I want a strong bass downbeat followed by light but distinctly articulated crescendoing ascending arpeggios with a strong emphasis on the uppermost note. There should also be a smoothly decrescendoing descent facilitated by a flexible wrist. So when going full tempo, set your metronome to 44, to emphasize the downbeats. One click is at the bottom the next click is at the top.
As for the polonaise. In the next recording I want one thing, metrical stability. Count the beats!
thanks Pete, Yes, i do 2X a day op10/1 with slow tempo as you said so. But I have already done the "improved " version/?/ The op53, I will ask my brian to discipline a bit more to give a stable pulse.
So, you dnt appreciate my " unorthodox" rubato playing, except the octave part. I have to adimit, the easiest part was the octave part and the hardest was the ?????/may be the last 4 bars.
No metronome was used in octave passage, so my natural bilogical cyborg clock is working right?? :lol:
Yes, i used aznazy validmir op53 as mine reference, he does palyed a much acurate than my version.
This requires a long period of concentration when doing the recording, I dnt allowed a EVEN ONE note to be wrong. so its quite a hard work for me. But I will try AGAIN....next year. as its a continious improvement...
Meanwhile, have a listen to my latest op10/1(next week) before I go back to my practice room-slow tempo.
I only listened to your 10/1.
Technically not bad, could've been a bit more polished, but you did a good job. Musically I think its rather dry. Every run sounds more or less the same... And it can be a bit more "clear". Like Pete said, probably you should first seek for clarity before you get the piece so fast.
Try to get it more polished and try to musically interprete it a bit more exciting. The recording is fine, but in this case it sounds too unclear. Try to find a way to make your recordings a bit more "clear" and perhaps a bit louder of volume.
Keep working on the piece!
Just listened to the Polonaise. This is modeled after Ashkenazy's performance ? I guess you're not quite there yet... Rhythmically this is a mess, and there are too many wrong notes to ensure any sense of continuity. All of which would not be so bad if it did not sound so dry - don't you use any pedal at all, or do you refuse to appply any reverb ? The double upward scales are quite solid (if too slow) but strangely you consistenly go one note too far with them. You must really look into the last few bars - there are wrongly read RH chords, and the rhythm of the last bar is wrong.
There are certainly some good moments here (you do comparatively well in that exhausting octave section), but overall this is a bit of a parody as yet. First thing, do play in time, and observe note values, dotted rhythms, and rests.
I hope I'm not coming across as a severely puritanical taskmaster, but you did say to be as direct as though you are one of my students. So direct I will be. Being unabashedly candid is what I'm best at. (As if you hadn't already noticed! :lol
About the polonaise, I would appreciate rubato if there was a stable rhythm to base it on. I said it before, I'll say it again; COUNT THE BEATS! I certainly appreciate rubato as well as individuality, but accuracy MUST come before anything else. Your recording was evidence of a great deal of hard work and determination, you should be proud. But at the same time, my duty as an educator is to call people on their flaws. One major flaw is the metric instability. At this point I have a one track mind, so forgive me if I appear unreasonably strict. (No sarcasm intended.)
If you were a student of mine, I would not allow you go forward another step before producing a recording of the etude and the polonaise @ half tempo and with perfect clarity.
I noticed that you made a distinction between practicing and performing. There is no rift between practicing and performing. To practice efficaciously, you must be in the same frame of mind as when you are on stage, hence my suggestion to post a half speed recording. I think you may have constructed a barrier between practice and performance. Mr. Mar, tear down that wall.
Okay, my whip-cracking teacher hat is off.
As a fellow student, I say a sincere "good luck!"
I look forward to hearing your new recording!
yes yes yes, i do use the pedal, most of the time, but at the same time i want some contrast.
,the double upward scale, i didnot use the pedal but i do in my latest version. to give some dramatic effect.
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