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Concert recordings - Brahms, Nielsen, Berg, Lutoslawski

Discussion in 'Submission Room' started by fnork, Sep 8, 2008.

  1. fnork

    fnork New Member

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  2. fnork

    fnork New Member

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    oops, forgot that I should've uploaded them as attachments here insted...will try to fix that tomorrow - sorry about that
     
  3. fnork

    fnork New Member

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    Ok, so far, Lutoslawski and Alban Berg are up.

    Would be great if this Berg sonata recording could replace my previous one. Also, is it possible to delete my Brahms op. 119? Listened to it the other day, and the sound quality really makes it a painful listen...plus, the playing isn't that superb anyway...
     
  4. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    I've listened to the Lutoslawski etudes, and these are splendid works, masterfully executed. They seem cousins to the Ligeti etudes, not quite as fiendish, but still very difficult I think. You do a marvellous job.

    Yes we will replace the Berg sonata if you want, and I am eagerly awaiting your Nielsen Chaconne, which is a real 20th century masterpiece.

    But we do not usually remove existing recordings just because the pianist doesn't like them anymore. I think the sound and playing is more than adequate. But if you really insist, we'll remove them as there is not shortage of recordings of these works.
     
  5. fnork

    fnork New Member

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    Nielsen is up!

    Thanks for the comment - I love the lutoslawski pieces too. They don't have the same structural or textual challenges as some ligeti etudes, but they are demanding nevertheless. I found no 1 the most difficult, while the 2nd is actually not that tricky once memorized. I hardly even practiced it before the concert, but maybe I should have..Both Nielsen and Lutoslawski were played first time in concert. Brahms too.
    Please wait with putting Nielsen up on the site though - I'm waiting for another recording of it (will get it any day), which might be better than this one..
    And, I would insist on deleting the Brahms op 119. Next time I pick the piece up, I will record it and have better sound quality, and play it better - hopefully...I have the Rhapsody from another concert with much better sound, will see if I can find that one.
     
  6. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Your Nielsen Chaconne is a marvellous performance. Such near-perfection in a live recital is a phenomenal feat. You could have been a little more expansive in the great climax, where your refusal to buckle down results in some ragged notes. Where Nielsen writes un poco piu mosso I would not blame anyone for instead taking a notch back in favour of more sonority. Maybe he did mean that, rather than whipping up the tempo. Maybe then you could have done the octava chords... which seem to me the extra pizzazz in this section.

    I remember reading an anecdote about this. Seems that when Nielsen was working on this section, his wife barged into his music room, demanding to know what the heck this awful noise was. Nielsen explained that if two people were in a fierce sword fight, sparks flying from the clashes, that would have a certain beauty of its own, and that was what he was trying to capture.

    Not sure if this may be not apocryphal - but seems to me the octava chords are these sparks, and they are missed now. Though I sympathize with you leaving them out, they're all but unplayable at this tempo.

    The hushed coda is a thing of great beauty, and you do it full justice. It was a good sign that the applause took a while to start.

    We now better create a Nielsen page. Even if this was the only recording we ever got, this is too important a work to put in a Various page. Any volunteers for writing a bio ?
     
  7. fnork

    fnork New Member

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    Thanks! I agree with pretty much everything you wrote. The climax should definately be slower (it's even too fast from the whole scherzando section I think..) - why is it that one always rushes in freshly learned pieces? Well, I'll take all of this in consideration when picking up the piece again.
    Actually, the octava chords...I've read about that - it was actually not Nielsen who wanted the octava jumps, it was the pianist who premiered the piece who had a fight with Nielsen about that, and in the end, the first edition of the Chaconne has the octava jumps. The 2nd edition, however, doesn't - and there are a few other things that were changed, such as not restriking the low D before the last chords of the piece. I recently saw a new critical edition of the piece which has several pages discussing all of these things. And besides - everyone who plays the octava jumps HAVE TO slow down rather than going PIU MOSSO, and they have to take much more time in the superwide jumps. I think the whole variation just becomes too long if you do that - it usually sounds more monotone too, I guess because it's more difficult to keep the bass line alive in a slower tempo.

    Creating a Nielsen page is a great idea - and lets hope someone else puts up some Nielsen pieces here! I have a friend who could write the Nielsen biography, this guy: www.wikipedia.org :lol:

    I found the coda to be much more difficult than it sounds...especially when the left hand has the 32-notes for two pages - the first page doesn't fit the hand very well. I will work on it more until next time I play it on concert..

    Actually - you can put up this Nielsen, because as I remember, the sound was worse in the other recording, and there was some memory-lapse there too. I will get the recording soon, but it's probably not as good as this recording.
     
  8. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    I don't quite agree with that. It's only a short variation anyway, and taking it a bit slower will not make it sound to long if one can succesfully put in these extra sparks. I found it a bit monotonous without them. Some time ago you mentioned that you were using some simplification in this piece, and I assumed it was this. It's very risky stuff, sort f like the infamous jumps in Schumann's Fantasie.

    Yes that is tempting. But we always try to be a bit different. It does not look good if we just rip a text, maybe change the odd word to avoid legal issues, and be done with it.

    I had almost mentioned that these sounded not optimally fluent... but though better of it as I know how damn hard it is. Already quite a feat that you don't miss a single note.

    It shall be done. This one is extremely fine.
     
  9. fnork

    fnork New Member

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    About the octavas - I'm only doing what the composer asked for :) It seems he never wanted those jumps in the first place, but it was the pianist who premiered the piece who wanted it to be more "flashy".

    And the coda - it needs some more work, but in a few spots there are NO good fingerings...Leif-Ove Andsnes does very well in his recording, but from what I remember, his coda is on the slower side, and he slows down in specifically difficult passages - that's actually probably what I would do now, too. Instead of having it sound unclear...

    It's fun to play Nielsen - want to do his 2nd violin sonata too. And, there's still plenty of fabulous piano music that almost nobody plays - why is that??
     
  10. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Yes in that case you made the right choice. Who whas that pianist anyway ? He must have been a good one, and I do think his addition enriches the piece considerably.

    You are such a perfectionist. Everything was crystal clear but just not as supple as could have been.
    As you say, it does not lie under the fingers well. I hestitate to call Nielsen's piano works unpianistic, he evidently could play and did understand the piano, but was not a real pianist-composer.

    It's because they are so damn hard, except the opp. 3, 11, and 53. I would only consider to record the Symphonic Suite even though it is a bit turgid in places. The Theme and Variations, Suite, and Three Pieces are all masterly and there is no excuse for professional pianists to play them. Maybe the two early sets would be an option, I've never seriously looked into them. The op.53 cycle seems a bit too childish.
     
  11. fnork

    fnork New Member

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    Don't know who the pianist was...they were fighting over some parts of the piece, that's all I know. I might be able to do a Nielsen page (ie, read from wikipedia and make some changes), but not in the next couple of days - I have too much to do. Or does someone else want to do it? And yeah - Nielsen is unpianistic...It even reminds me of Brahms sometimes - it's always very orchestral. In the chaconne, I hear string quartets, woodwinds etc - the whole orchestra..Too bad he didn't give us a piano concerto!

    By the way, is it possible to upload the Lutoslawski here, or is it problematic with copyright etc..? The pieces were written in 1941 I believe...In any case, maybe there should be a Lutoslawski page too?


    I'm not going to upload the Brahms here by the way, I don't want to put it up on the site anyway. But for anyone who wants to listen, the link is still active. I just know that I can play it much better if I pick it up again...
     
  12. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Indeed so. I bet it would have been good.

    We'll put them up but I hesitate about a page as I fear we'll never get more than these two etudes. Or have you got plans to record more ?

    Sure but is that not always the case ? Sometimes you should just be content with how it came out, and move on.
     
  13. fnork

    fnork New Member

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    Regarding the Brahms - some of the recordings I've put up on this site has ended up being put up on other sites as well...And I want to be able to delete things I'm not happy with, or have made better recordings of. If they end up on other sites, I don't have that possibility... And anyway, I will do the Handel variations more, so I will post better recordings in the future, don't worry :)

    About lutoslawski - I'm actually considering doing some of the 12 folk melodies too! Not at the moment, but I have plans for a "polish recital" next year with music by polish composers (I'm half-polish btw) - chopin, szymanowski, lutoslawski, grazyna bacewicz, roman maciejewski etc... But we could create a lutoslawski page when I do upload more lutoslawski pieces.
     
  14. sarah

    sarah New Member

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    I'd be willing to do it if you still need a volunteer. :D
     
  15. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    That would be great Sarah ! You'll be our star writer yet :D
     
  16. fnork

    fnork New Member

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    That would be great! I don't really have the time to do the research now, so....thanks! Need to spend most of my time with Bartoks 3rd concerto at the moment...

    btw, is it possible to upload videos here as well? The whole festival got videotaped, so..I will get a DVD soon, hopefully. The videos might get uploaded on youtube too though
     
  17. fnork

    fnork New Member

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    All recordings from this festival are temporarily availeble here:

    http://www.kyrkan.com/tmp/pianofestival/

    I especially recommend listening to Vladimir Ovchinnikovs recital, most of all his Rachmaninoff "Moment musicaux". You cannot see who plays what, but his recital is betwen track 16-25. My teachers recital is between tracks 10-15, I can most of all recommend his Schubert sonata, and also Gunnar de Frumeries 2nd piano sonata.
    All other recordings are students playing - me and another of my teachers students, and two of Vladimir Ovchinnikovs students. Videos will come later
     
  18. fnork

    fnork New Member

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    Hey, what happened to the Nielsen page? :) And, the recordings I posted can be uploaded on the site, except Brahms. I would like this Berg sonata recording to replace the previous one I uploaded.
     
  19. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Sorry Martin, I had started with this some time ago but got busy and distracted. I will resume this tonight and also delete your Brahms intermezzi as requested. A fellow forum member is working on a Nielsen bio.
     
  20. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Ok, phew, done all that...
    Put up Nielsen, Lutoslawski, replaced Berg, deleted Brahms Klavierstucke. You better go check if everything is in order. We still need texts for all pages added. But I no longer have time to do that, I'm afraid.
     

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