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Chopin Valse Melancolique and Granados re-do

Discussion in 'Submission Room' started by pianolady, Mar 14, 2007.

  1. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist

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  2. John Robson

    John Robson New Member Piano Society Artist

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    Granados y Chopin

    I thought about Spanish ladies in mantillas, Seville, and bull fights as I listened to your Granados. It was very well played. Your playing is very clean and concise. You have a beautiful soft touch. My only suggestion would be perhaps more crescendo in certain spots. Your performance encourages me to attempt some Granados myself. Any suggestions where to start?

    This Chopin waltz is very touching indeed. Does it have an Opus number? I don't have a copy of it, but would like to get it. Again you played beautifully and sensitively. My humble suggestions include more crescendo in places. It is a soft piece, but I feel it would be more emotional with more dynamic contrasts. One of my favorite teachers always reminded me to THINK OF WHERE EACH NOTE IS GOING. THEY ARE NOT STATIC; THEY MUST ALWAYS MOVE TOWARD A DESTINATION. It took me quite a while to understand what he meant. I still need to constantly remind myself of his advice.

    Don't mean to tell you how to play, but that's what came to my mind as I listened to the Chopin.
     
  3. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist

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    Thank you, John. Believe it or not, I was applying dynamics, but you can't tell so much on the recordings. If Olaf comes around here, he will probably yell at me for blaming the equipment but
    'that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.' :wink:

    If you go back to my previous recording of this piece, Chris gives a lot of information on Granados collections. They are nice, aren't they? I'm waiting for a book that I ordered.

    Oh yeah, the Chopin Valse. Robert has some information on this piece in the Chopin bio section. I think he even has the sheets up here somewhere.
     
  4. schmonz

    schmonz Amitai Schlair Piano Society Artist

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    It seems with each new posting you sound more confidently and naturally musical. No exception here. Very enjoyable listening!
     
  5. robert

    robert New Member Piano Society Artist

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    Very good Monica and really liked your playing here!

    The Granados is full with spanish passion and fire. Just as I want it and I kept this going during the morning and simply enjoyed!

    You play the Chopin waltz with melancolique as the title says (however I am sure Chopin did not write that as he never gave names other than opus number to any of his works) and quite different from how I used to play it. But your version is a lot better than mine so thanks for putting up a recording that makes this pretty different Chopin waltz justice.

    Regarding this waltz (close to being a Nocturne IMO) and to the discussion if this is an authentic Chopin composition, I refer to my little research I did 4 years ago which is posted on this site under "Publications" on this link:
    http://pianosociety.com/cms/index.php?section=633
    The end of this waltz is very unusual for coming from Chopin.

    I created sheets for the waltz no.18, 19 and 20 some years ago since they are very hard to find in any Chopin collection and these sheets are posted on this site as well on the very same page.

    Both pieces are up on the site.
     
  6. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    I cannot offer much useful comment on the Chopin waltz as I never heard it before :oops:
    Doesn't really sound much like Chopin to me either, but very pleasant stuff all the same, lovingly played. I can't think of avything to change, although it sounded like you hit a strange arpeggio chord at 1:25.

    The Granados scores some points over the previous version, but I am not sure it is overall better. The triplets certainly sound better now, though they could be more supple yet. You sound a bit impatient here and there. What disturbs me are the rather abrupt pauses between contrasting phrases. I am sure they should be integrated into the story line and not have a surprise factor.

    It seems to me (though could be imagination) that the piano sound is a bit sharper than in the previous version. But that one has already been replaced so it is a moot point really.
     
  7. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist

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    Thank you for listening, Schmonz, Robert and Techneut.

    Robert - I do remember reading the info you have up here about the Waltz. I sure wish we could know for sure if Chopin wrote it. Also, I just listened to your version. Didn't know it was up here. I liked it. We both have definite differences, but that is what makes this site so special. Also, the link from my page to the Waltz takes you to Clementi instead of Chopin.

    Chris - I don't know what you mean about the triplets. And the breaks between sections: that only happens in the what I call the "ocean-like" section. I admit you are right about that, as for some reason, no matter what, I couldn't bring my hands to the start of the set of notes fast enough. But it's only on one or two places, and I think I'm all right on all the other places.
    Thanks for your thoughts.
     
  8. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Well ummm.... I wrote this initially:

    I refer to the starting bars of the main theme. These are the first triplets to occur in the piece, I think. They sounded rather stiff in the first version.


    Right. Perhaps you are, it is a matter of taste.
     
  9. MindenBlues

    MindenBlues New Member Piano Society Artist

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    Re: Granados y Chopin

    The Valse is beautiful played, soft and calm!
    I do agree with John upon that some more dynamic contrasts could make it even more interesting. There are conrasts already, it is audible, so no need to blame your Edirol indeed:lol: But it is harmony wise a rather underdeveloped piece, so maybe one can do dynamicwise more in comparison to other "richer" pieces. But everyone sees such things different, and your take is great as it is.

    Also that Granados piece - played with passion, and I also like that strong contrasts. Great played!

    Nice reputation I have, really - yelling at you... :roll:

    Thank you for that advice - I try to remember in order to phrase better!
     
  10. robert

    robert New Member Piano Society Artist

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    Sorry. fixed.
     
  11. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist

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    Re: Granados y Chopin

    After listening to Robert's version in which he uses much more dynamics than I did, I have no excuses. Oh well... 'live and learn'. Thanks for listening, Olaf.
     
  12. John Robson

    John Robson New Member Piano Society Artist

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    Ouch!

    Sorry about the capitals. I forgot that capital letters mean one is shouting in computer lingo. I just meant to emphasize, not to shout or preach.
     
  13. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Re: Ouch!

    Yes, we know that :) A quote in capitals is not bad, but italic is always better.
     
  14. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist

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    Don't worry, John. I didn't even notice the capitals.

    Also, today as I flipped the pages in the book, the very next piece after this Anoranza one is another Granados: Rondalla Aragonesa. It looks like a lot of fun to play. If you have many books sitting around, look for it. Maybe we can have a Granados challenge with everybody here. (kind of like a bake-off, only it would be a 'play-off'). We can all practice the same piece and then post it on a certain date. Would be fun to hear everybody's interpretations back-to-back. Just an idea. (probably a bad one, because I myself am supposed to be practicing other pieces for my teacher, but oh well.)
     
  15. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Fun to play :shock: This is the next in line for my Spanish Dances cycle and I am scared stiff of it. Those LH jump-ups and full-speed hand crossings in the development section are insanely difficult to get right. I wonder why they picked that one to put into your collection book :?
     
  16. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist

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    So in other words, it’s too hard for me? I’m going to try it, anyway. The Granados book I ordered still has not come in, so this will give me another one to play in the meantime. Want to race? (I’m kidding – you have a head start)
     
  17. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Oh I don't know about that. I can only say that some passages are hard for me at the tempo I want the piece to go. Your mileage may vary, as they say.
     
  18. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist

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    Ok, I just played through it and have another goofy idea. You play the first section plus the last same section and I'll play the pretty and slow middle section. But I'll help you with those crazy jumps - you just keep your hands there and I'll pop in a high A every now and then. ( :) sorry, cracking myself up again)
     
  19. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    You are full of goofy ideas :lol: Why don't you get your bum up here and we'll play it 4-handed. That would be fun !
     
  20. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist

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    Wish I could. That would be fun. Someone should invent a way to play duets long distance.
     

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