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Chopin Preludes Op. 28 (1)

Discussion in 'Submission Room' started by DavidBryce, Dec 22, 2009.

  1. DavidBryce

    DavidBryce Member Piano Society Artist

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  2. DavidBryce

    DavidBryce Member Piano Society Artist

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    Chopin Preludes Op 28 (2)

    Here's the rest...

    On the whole I'm happiest with these, so you might want to listen to them in the obvious order.
     
  3. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    First off, I admire everybody who tackles a complete set of the Chopin Preludes. Despite we have a complete set already, and many individual recordings, there is always room for a good complete set.

    Now you should ask yourself, is this a good complete set or not ? This cycle is a real acid test where Chopin places cruel demands on the player in a number of items. You cope with them best as you can but in many places it is not enough. In the real hard items (like 16, 19, 24), the results can be quite embarrassing. A slip here and there is not the end of the world, but clamorous page turns resulting in several bars of mayhem (no.16) can't be tolerated, nor can large numbers of wrong and omitted notes (19) or ostensibly slowing down and struggling when things get hard (24). In more straightforward preludes, you can be rather lumbering (1, 3). I did not hear all of them and maybe there are some that would be acceptable, but overall I think this is below standard. The piano sound does not always help; the closing notes of no.24 sound very flat and unpleasant.

    Mind you it could be that many items that we have on the site are not good enough compared to today's quality standards. We were not always so critical in the past... but we are now, and any submitting pianist should apply a good dose of self-criticism. Things might be slightly different if this was new repertoire for the site. But it isn't.

    But let's hear the opinion of the Chopin experts here. I have given my two cents worth, hopefully they can be of use to you despite the negative content. At a minimum, you ned do do something about the page turns. Edit them out, make photocopies, whatever.
     
  4. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you too! So far I have listened to 1 through 13. First of all, I want to say that the sound quality is not so good. I have to turn my speakers all the way up and there is a lot of background noise like moving around, breathing, that sort of thing. Also, it might help if you boosted the bass a bit - editing programs can do this. I can sometimes barely hear the bass as it is now.

    Preludes 1 - 4 - fine

    5 - ok, if a tad too slow

    6 - fine

    7 - ok, but I think you used a bit too much pedal in bars 3, 5, 7, and 15.

    8 - ok. Started out a little sluggish but got better as you went on. Very nice from bar 19 to the end.

    9 - not fine. Wrong rhythm - RH - the 16th notes.

    10 - fine

    11 - no go again, sorry - too many inaudible notes, wrong RH rhythm in bar 23 , also you added a note in bar 24

    12 - not sure about this one either - not crazy about the way you hold the 1st 8th notes in each bar. Then there are a couple slips, and a bad page turn.

    13 - I was first going to say that this one was ok, but changed my mind. Some inaudible and wrong notes in the beginning - the middle was fine - but then the end had more mishaps. And this could really use some more bass!

    I'll listen to the rest when I get back from exercise class.
     
  5. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Yes these are fine in the sense that all the right notes are there and there's nothing really wrong.
    I thought however that no. 1 is much too heavy and hectored, no.2 too fast with too much pedal, no.3 too slow and too drowned in pedal. Certainly no.3 should be light and mercurial, I think.

    I should also mention that were were plenty of good things to be heard here and there, so it's not as if all is bad. Just that there are far too many clonkers. :wink:
     
  6. alf

    alf Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Monica, the rhythm (dotted against triplet = together) is correct, it's the traditional practice here unfortunately to be wrong.

    David, there's a conspicuous reading mistake in measure 7. Sorry but I don't have time now to listen to all the other preludes, I've just caught by Monica's remark.
     
  7. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    I sampled three more preludes that place musical rather than great technical demands, the lovely nos. 17, 21, and 23. Especially no.17 is quite well done, with proper combination of affection and ardour, but all three suffer of inexplicable stumbles and hesitations. Once more, an in-your-face page turn followed by several bars of confusion. The 'blue' note in that magical closing of no.23 sticks out like a sore thumb, and there is a wrong note after it that adds insult to injury.

    With all respect for your hard work, much more work is needed to achieve a reasonable level of accuracy and confidence. It's all just too haphazard right now.
     
  8. DavidBryce

    DavidBryce Member Piano Society Artist

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    Techneut.

    Apologies. I should have spelled out which ones I'd like to be considered for submission.

    Etiquette in future perhaps should lead me to spare you and provide only links to the others already identified in need of improvement?

    Slips I know I can tackle. I mainly want to gain from the wide community that you have (and I see more replies in. I will digest Thank you). e.g. Is it beginning to hang together at all as a whole?

    Lumbering. Really? Gosh is this something to do with meter?
     
  9. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Ah right. Which ones do you intend to be published then ?

    That might be better, yes. I remember having commented on some of your Chopin some time ago but could not find the details. Preferable, you should not submit to Audition room until you have a satisfactory level of accuracy (not meaning it must all be 100% perfect of course).

    Nope, there is nothing much wrong with your rhythm. I use lumbering in the sense of heavy. I think no.1 should be light on its feet, like a bird or butterfly taking off.
     
  10. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    well, guess I don't need to listen or comment on anymore of these. :x

    (bad manners, David. I spent an hour downloading and listening to your music and you don't even mention it! :evil:)
     
  11. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Agreed on one hand. On the other, people do tend to forget replying to individual posts when there are multiple replies. I would guess that was not intentional.
     
  12. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    doubtful, but whatever...I hate this kind of thing! Not going to waste another second on his recordings until he tells us which ones we are supposed to be considering. The only thing I know now is that many of these are not going up.
     
  13. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Yep, agree with that.
     
  14. DavidBryce

    DavidBryce Member Piano Society Artist

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    I don’t mind too much having to hear blunt how it is, but please bear in mind that I have in many ways laid my soul out bare (not enough judging by the comments so far on my playing!) and may I ask that nothing more be said on this strand unless it is reconciliatory and constructive please. This all appears to have provoked a particularly unwelcome response from which I don’t mind admitting I'm still reeling.

    Having been busy at work I've not had the opportunity until now to thank you for all the obvious time and energy you put in.

    If you go back to my first two postings I hope you can see I tried to guide people as to which group was more worthy of a first listen. The fact that the worst ones came top was simply due to my initial unfamiliarity with the maximum 15 postings per message. My intention was for people to see how I'm viewing the work in its entirety and despite my earlier assertion, I now realise the ones that pass the grade in my mind hasn’t FULLY crystallised. The best intentions, but I soon came to realise my mistake of airing them to you yet again too soon for which I have already apologised. It almost reads like this has all happen once too often and I was the unlucky but naive guy.

    I had encouraged others to view the site and am now getting messages of puzzlement as to why they can't hear the music. I was expecting it to be open to anyone who might wish to comment. I hope you can see how embarrassing this now feels for me.

    The site, as you have been at particular pains to remind me again, is taking a much stricter approach now. Commendable. In which case before I consider providing my recordings to you in the future I would ask you to at least consider whether it would be better all round to require of everyone to agree to a more formal code of conduct; so that everyone can understand how they should proceed and also what they should come to expect.
     
  15. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Reconciliatory and constructive – your thread here started out in a completely reconciliatory manner. But for Pete’s sake, Chris and I pointed out every little thing, good and bad about your recordings – how much more constructive can we get? And I apologize for my ‘outburst’ but not the reason behind it. I could have been practicing my own piano music instead of taking all that time to critique your playing. So to not get any kind of response from someone whom I have given so much of my time to really annoys me (pretty sure you could not have missed my first comments)! You should feel fortunate that you at least got some feedback!

    Code of conduct – please, you’ve been around before. There is nothing new here. Members freely give of their time listening to other members’ or potential members’ recordings and then possibly offer some criticism. That’s it! And it is a two-way street – you want more attention/criticism, then give up some of your time and listen to/comment on another member – at least once in a while. I checked your past posts – you’ve never critiqued anyone else around here.

    So from this point forward you need to specify which of these preludes you think are worthy based on the feedback you’ve received so far. Then I and hopefully another member(s) will confirm that and put the recordings on the site.

    Btw – your attachments (recordings) are still at the top of this thread. People have to be logged on in order to see and access them which means they have to register on the site.
     
  16. Terez

    Terez New Member

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    You beat me to it. I think we had that conversation on another thread. :lol: I told my piano teacher that and she didn't believe me - I had to pull out her urtext and show her the notes on it.
     
  17. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Well, I thought I might be going crazy so I double-checked and listened to Rubinstein, Cordot, Kissin, Pogorelich, Argerich, Arrau, and they all play it the way I think it should go (or at least how I am used to hearing/playing it). Maybe I didn't make it clear what I meant about Bryce's recording here. He plays the RH 16th note down at the same time as the last note in the second set of triplets, when it should come down after. Now do you know what I mean?
     
  18. Terez

    Terez New Member

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    Yup, we know what you mean. If I had my teacher's Urtext with me, I'd type it out for you, but it's one of those lingering performance practice issues that goes back to the baroque era - it also applies in the polonaise-fantasie (the dotted figures should be aligned with the triplets, and only the double-dotted ones should come after).

    Alfie mentioned last time we had this conversation that Pollini was the only person he knows of that plays it correctly (YouTube evidence!). He said something about even professionals being lazy. :lol:
     
  19. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Well I'll be darned - I'm so surprised by this. I'm looking at the music and counting 1-e-and-a, and all that, but I still can't get that 16th note to come down at the same time with that LH triplet. But even so, I can't understand why all these top players have been playing it wrong all this time! Wow!! Perhaps next time I am with Kissin, I will tell him about this. :lol:
     
  20. Terez

    Terez New Member

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    haha, they probably play it wrong for the same reason we all do - in Bach, you expect that there are some things you will have to do that aren't written in the music, but in Chopin, you play what is on the page! But this is a rare exception, apparently.
     

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