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Chopin Prelude and Nocturne + Beethoven Sonata Movement

Discussion in 'Submission Room' started by mwyman1, Mar 7, 2012.

  1. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Joe and Matthew,
    I can't make up my mind which one of you is throwing the biggest tantrum about nothing. Maybe you guys are made for each other :D
    I must admit I secretly enjoy seeing a good old shouting match... just as I like to watch a cheap and stupid B movie now and then... and it makes the forum sort of interesting in dire times.... but really, this is starting to get a little too personal now. Why not back down and admit you can't always get an argument to swing your way.
     
  2. jlr43

    jlr43 Member Piano Society Artist

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    Well I certainly do apologize for my cheap and stupid feedback. And the same goes for my sophomoric twaddle :mrgreen:
     
  3. mwyman1

    mwyman1 Member

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    This clarification helps a lot actually, and I really like that idea. For me, I knew I needed to refine my pieces and was looking for some feedback. (I'm very happy with the comprehensive feedback, by the way!) I really don't want you guys to become too much like the other site, however, which too often provides little true value to the musician IMO.
    Please don't give up on me yet - I'm still here! :D I've received a lot of positive feedback as well as specific things to work on, and am actually quite encouraged when I compare the feedback given to many other posters you've had. (I even had a few votes to post these early versions 8) ) And who knows, I may actually improve with a little time and practice!

    I have no complaints with the admins' feedback on pieces reviewed, which were all very helpful with the proper mix of specifics and encouragement. Wishful thinking perhaps, but I do wish there was a way to discourage the non-constructive, personally offensive postings. I certainly made a rookie mistake and played my part, but I can't help but wonder if this has something to do with your retention/membership dropoff you've recently experienced. :?:

    As a newbie here, it was very demoralizing to be attacked by one of your most prolific artists. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for tough love and understand never to underestimate the power of ones' delusions of their own skills (see American Idol). :shock: However according to the majority of feedback I received on this site, my work has potential and its problems are fixable. Knowing so little about me (or other more experienced folks who may be in my position), shouldn't I deserve the benefit of the doubt with regards to my ability to improve? Is it really the best policy to hastily decide (and point out to me) that I'm in way over my head?

    Another angle. Have you ever performed a piece that you used to know well but haven't played in years, and had short notice to prepare? The piece is still somewhat in your fingers, so you may produce a 'passable' performance at least to the untrained ears. But a few notes may be missed here or there certainly, and hesitation can also be introduced as you are not fully prepared. However, with relatively little focused, dedicated practice you can improve very rapidly. A little metronome work in these situations does wonders! How do you know that's not the case for me with my Beethoven, or any other piece for example? I might surprise you, after all. Either way, I think in these situations it's poisonous and premature to disparage the new person - especially if you're a well-respected artist on the site.

    So I know I can block this person's messages, but I wonder if there is something more the site (or admins) could do to educate and/or encourage its artists to avoid attacking newcomers?

    Anyway, I hope I have not offended anyone and apologize for my part in this. I also hope that I will be given the opportunity to re-post these performances, as well as many others I'm [slowly] working on.
     
  4. mwyman1

    mwyman1 Member

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    Well said. Ditto for me.
     
  5. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Matthew, I don't understand how you feel personally attacked. You got some candid feedback, maybe not what you wanted to hear most, but that's life. Deal with it and turn it into your advantage. In any online community, there's bound to be one or two fierce creatures that will pound on you if you step in with an attitude. It's probably best to try and get to know people first before starting to vent your pet peeves and judge people. That some conversations became testy is entirely your own doing. Not that I want to take sides in the dispute - I try to, and usually can, see both sides of an argument. If someone says you're not up to the Beethoven piece, I'd assume there may be some truth in that and would work on it harder, rather than getting all wound up and indignant about it. Maybe you are up to it and just haven't practiced nearly enough. Dunno, I have not listened to it. Maybe I should, but then don't get hot under the collar if you get the same kind of feedback. As I like saying, if you can't stand the heat then do get out of the kitchen. Or, better still, get used to it.
     
  6. mwyman1

    mwyman1 Member

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    Oh geez, I thought this was over. :( This is getting quite exhausting. If you want me out of here please just say so. You're the admin so I'm sure you'll get the last word ultimately...

    The old reliable "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen" argument. This is what's called a "straw man", at least as applied to my acceptance of the feedback. I suppose based on your experience, you think everyone who expresses dismay is just upset because they suck and can't take the truth. Convenient argument, and certainly very easy to win, especially from the bully pulpit.

    Sigh. :? I'm not upset about any of the candid feedback. Not sure how many times I have to say that. It's the feedback I was looking for. Perhaps you should look back at my posts in context. I'm upset about the personal attacks by ONE of your artists who chose to jump in and attack me related to my posts to you. If you were so inclined, you could check out my initial responses to your artist's "feedback", his stated desire to "stir up a little trouble" with me, and the various and curious names/insults he threw. If you don't think this sort of thing has any correlation to your decreasing posts and users, then that's OK with me. Feel free to just ignore my complaint about the "personal attack" if you like - I promise I won't lose sleep over it. It's your site.

    But I get it - you feel I asked for it and deserve it. Again, I'm VERY SORRY I ranted to you about the "overplayed" comment - boy was that a big mistake. Can we just erase my account and start over?

    But PLEASE PLEASE can we end all of this and just move on? I give up. 8)
     
  7. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    That's a very good idea :!:

    Man-oh-man, things did not go very well with your initial time up to bat, Matthew. Sure, it's not easy to swallow a bitter pill, but clearly you have a passion for playing classical piano, as we all do, and if you give it a chance, Piano Society can be a real great resource for learning about and improving your own piano playing. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten some comments that I felt were pretty irksome! and then I'd storm off and pout for awhile. But the advice, help, encouragement, knowledge, and friendship that I've received far outweighs the unpleasant stuff and so that keeps me plodding on. You claim to be wide open for constructive criticism so maybe you can submit different recordings when you have some ready. My main complaint about these first three recordings is the sound of your piano. I really don't like it at all. You will have to tinker around and get a better sound on your next submissions if you have hopes of them going up onto the main site.
     
  8. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Still testy, I see. Ah well, maybe you'll grow out of it.
    Sure let's move on. No point in beating a dead horse.

    As for Joe, we've had some interesting times with him. But we get on alright now, he's quite ok when you get to know him better. And his feedback, while sometimes uncompromising, is usually spot-on. But to answer your question, in your profile you can define Friends and Foes, so you can ignore people you don't like (not the admins, unfortunately, they can't be ignored :mrgreen: )
     
  9. mwyman1

    mwyman1 Member

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    :shock: Whatever you say chief. You da man. Bet you still think the disputed feedback was about the Beethoven, huh? Ah well, literacy is overrated I suppose. Maybe you'll grow into it. :mrgreen:
     
  10. andrew

    andrew Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist

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    I only have time to listen to the Beethoven just now, and Eddy has expressed very adequately what I feel about it. To what he advises at the end, I would add WITHOUT PEDAL during preparatory work. Someone once said to me "the pedal is to the pianist as the bottle is to an alcoholic" and the pedal is a wonderful way of disguising woes and problems. :) The rubati which you employ sound very odd and stylistically out of character. To be fair to you, there is a nice overall sound, but it is a bit same-ish throughout. I'm guessing a bit here, but I assume you aren't currently seeing a teacher - I think some of the faults mentioned above fall into the category of problems which would be noticed straightaway and not allowed to persist if you were. I think you can play the piece, but it needs work, especially on evenness. Good luck with it.
     
  11. mwyman1

    mwyman1 Member

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    Thanks Andrew - Yes, after listening back to my Beethoven I do think the feedback regarding evenness and rubati has been spot on. I've been working at it (within my limited practice times that is) the past few weeks. Good suggestion about the pedal - I like that saying as well! :) No teacher for me for quite some time now, although my kids have one.

    Best Regards.
     

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