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Chopin Mazurka op.67 n.4

Discussion in 'Submission Room' started by Sandro Bisotti, Dec 11, 2008.

  1. Sandro Bisotti

    Sandro Bisotti New Member Piano Society Artist

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    First my version of this mazurka.
    I hope someone will appreciate, and thank you for attention.
    All the best,
    Sandro
     
  2. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    A contemplative performance with nice (and very tender) musical moments. It was interesting for me to read in the score while listening, because it´s a quite long time ago, that I played a Mazurka of Chopin. This is really a lovely piece and I enjoyed your recording. Obviously you want to have here a lyrical and contemplative interpretation and you did this convincingly and so your tempo is adequate to your idea, I think.
    What do you think about the tempi in Chopins Mazurkas, here and generally? In the score is written "moderato animato" (crotchet=138). I suppose, the metronome-indication is not of Chopin, and I know, that they mostly are too fast, isn´t it?
     
  3. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    138 to the quarter seems way too fast indeed. But I am not sure it should be so excruciatingly slow as here. Anyway, it is up the site.
     
  4. Sandro Bisotti

    Sandro Bisotti New Member Piano Society Artist

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    Thank you much Chris and Andreas for commenting. IMHO the question is very interesting (the "correct" tempo) and tomorrow I'll have the time to try to motivate my choice.
    Bye,
    Sandro
     
  5. Sandro Bisotti

    Sandro Bisotti New Member Piano Society Artist

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    1) The Chopin (and also Liszt's pianos, as we can hear in some CD, not played by Chopin and Liszt, :( ) produce a sustain-decay time for each note very faster than modern pianos.
    If we consider the notes only as they attack time, we must play fast; I like to play generally slow
    (or really fast, in particulas circumstances, when the single sound is lost in the turbulence) because I consider all the life of each single sound. Attack-sustain-decay-release =3 seconds in Chopin time pianos; Attack-sustain-decay-release for the same sound=5 seconds.....then I find correct to let that sound live for 5 seconds. Terrible if the recording-reproducing tools cut of the ends of the sounds, all seems without sense and then it's better to play fast, but I think to a good recording/ reproducing.
    2) This music is both classic and not so known, then if I exagger in the "theatrical" aspects, this can help a not expert listener to enjoy it. Expressive clarity needs time (or its opposite, agitation)
    3) I don't think a piece has its "correct tempo", the tempo (its clock and regularity) being a dependent variable of the relation between the player and the myths he finds in the score.
    Each player soul is resounding at a certain tempo (and sound colour, and dynamics), and it is
    silent if forced to play at a "correct" (not other than the mainstream average, not more than a statistic data) tempo.
    4) I think these Mazurkas are not to be danced, then tempo is a free part of the play of the comunication.
    5) Obviously these and other ones are not more than my ideas; they are behind my playing, and my consideration of the (absurde, as all the histories) history of the piano playing as art.
    Bye,
    Sandro
     
  6. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Your thoughts are very interesting, Sandro, thank you.

    Sandro Bisotti wrote:
    To a certain degree I agree. Of course, no player should force himself to play a piece in a tempo, he cannot feel into this piece. And in most cases there are no precise metronome-prescriptions (we find them usually more in the music more modern ). So there is a certain spectrum of tempo-variety in such pieces, which have tempo-prescriptions like "Allegro", "Andante" and so on.
    But I would like to imagine an extreme case: f.ex. if a piece has the headline "Adagio" and I play it like an Allegro, because my soul only is able to resound in this tempo, I should better not play it, because I will not correspond approximately to the composers intention. And I have experienced myself, that I can try to make my soul resounding at a tempo, which I consider as adequate for this piece (because I like to try to correspond approximately the composers intention). (Of course, it´s another question, if it is the composers intention, what I´m considering as such, but for me the effort still counts a lot.)
    Of course, these are only my personal thoughts and not an objective truth, too. I think, what we are discussing here, is, if we are used to play more from the heart or from the head, isn´t it? You very often seem to play with the balance-point on your heart, Sandro. (That does not mean, that you haven´t any concept, BTW.) That´s the reason, why your interpretations are so expressive, authentic, originally and very convincing (IMO if they are not too extreme :wink: ). So, for me the ideal is, to find the right balance of heart and head, if I have this, I have the most convincing interpretaion. What do you think about it?
     
  7. Sandro Bisotti

    Sandro Bisotti New Member Piano Society Artist

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    But I agree on this, at 100%. Only remains the question of where is the point where excess begins, but your concept is really good. For example, and not only for tempo questions, I prefer to play only the preludes from WTK, having no ideas about how these pieces can be played.
    All the best,
    Sandro
     
  8. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Sandro Bisotti wrote:
    I´m aware, that´s a theoretical (and philosophic) concept, and in praxis the question, at what point the excess begins, will stay a matter of taste up to a certain degree. And if an interpret does excesses, there may be others, who like this, but we probably can not say, that this interpret has the ambition to aspire approximately to the composers intention.
    Because the music, we are playing here very often is nearly between hundred or four-hundred years old, and many people aspired to play these pieces corresponding approximately to the composers intention, there has something developed, what you call the "mainstream". Indeed, in the times of today it´s not easy to bring something real new. (Even excesses are not really new today.) So, for me, the question, if I do something new or original personally is not so important as simply to enjoy and to try to feel in and to make thoughts about the music, trying to find out an enjoyable sort of interpretation.
    I suppose, if I´m learning a new prelude of Bach, first my heart gives some inspirations to my head, my head checks out, if that could be corresponding to the stilistic limits of the piece, then here and there my head develops ideas, gives them to my heart, and my heart checks out, if it can "resound" from these ideas. If it cannot, my head will drop this idea (or my heart, if the wish of the head is strong enough, tries to go with the head). So, it´s a process of development and riping of a certain interpretation, which has a certain originality and is only one of thousands of possibilities.
    Of course, this is only a personal, theoretical and imperfect attempt to describe the way, how an interpretation accrues and develops, when I´m playing something, f.ex. a Bach-prelude.
    If you say, you have no idea, how the prelude should be played, you are playing spontaneously and your head probably has a more less weight in this case. But, of course, this is no critique, everyone has another way to develop his interpretations.
     
  9. Sandro Bisotti

    Sandro Bisotti New Member Piano Society Artist

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    Ok Andreas. But for me: I'm not obliged to play, and I play only when I have an idea about what that music can be (if played in a certain way) for my soul. When I play without this idea ( a myth, a
    situation, a tension to a psichic image) I'm not happy to play and I find this (my) playing unuseful both for me and for the potential listener.
    Bye,
    Sandro
     

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