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Chopin Mazurka op. 17 n.4

Discussion in 'Submission Room' started by Sandro Bisotti, May 7, 2009.

  1. Sandro Bisotti

    Sandro Bisotti New Member Piano Society Artist

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    A minor. "Lento ma non troppo" I do not understand italian, but I think it means "slow as possible" :)
    There are two great family of pieces: slow as (or over) the possible, and fast as (or over) the possible. I prefer those special metronomes with only 2 possible tempo, but equally I don't use it,
    because "tempo" is a complete abstraction, useful only as starting idea to begin to play a piece.
    Psychic life has not "tempo", only lights, shadows, situations, colours; so the music, that is psychic life.
    Thank you for attention and all the best,
    Sandro
     
  2. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Likewise, there are two types of interpretations, good ones and bad ones.
    This one is a complete parody. No way we'll have it on the site, it has nothing to do with Chopin.
     
  3. juufa72

    juufa72 New Member Piano Society Artist

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    What a radical (literal) interpretation. You have your rights to play as you want and share with others, but I can't say I enjoyed this. Well played but painfully slow. Nevertheless, thanks for sharing.

    best
    -jg
     
  4. Sandro Bisotti

    Sandro Bisotti New Member Piano Society Artist

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    For God's wish we have you, so we can know what is Chopin and what is not Chopin.
    I recognize now my playing is not Chopin, then I will be more happy and realized....
    Thank you, one never end to learn and this is an hard and necessary lesson for me.
    S.
     
  5. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    :roll: :lol:
     
  6. Sandro Bisotti

    Sandro Bisotti New Member Piano Society Artist

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    Too much slow, than it's not Chopin.
    Apart the fact that Chopin is dead and (also when he lived) each pianist plays HIS music
    (one play FROM the score, not the score, obvious), and the question "this is Chopin or not" (or Ravel
    or Beethoven or someone else) seem to me a little ridicoulous, being already written the answer:
    -no, this is not Chopin-. In any case, if one plays for 3 minutes or 5 or 9, THAT is not Chopin, but the playing of pianist a, b, or c.
    But, if this is not obvious, and the duration is a problem, why to not indicate the minimum-maximum tempo for considering "Chopin" each Chopin piece. 1st Ballad >6 and <13>2 and <6 and so on.....one could have a more precise idea.
    In my case, I would avoided to purpose my version, because exeeding the "moderator/good taste/Chopin" maximum time. Or I could play faster.
    Interesting, or not?
    At any case, not being interested in this ridicoulous kind of aesthethic selection about my art,
    I will not continue to purpose my versions here.
    Bye all, and in this occasion I will say thank you to who continues to download my files here
    (all persons who doesn't know what Chopin is, mercy of them). Thank you to them and to all ones
    who see the videos (about 1000 daily download) on my YT channel.
    Bye,
    S.
     
  7. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Yeah whatever. So you're not interested in ridiculous criticism, and we're not interested in ridiculous performances.
    Good luck on YT where there are no moderators, and where the discerning music lovers will lap up anything at all you throw at them and think it wonderful.
     
  8. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Hi Sandro,
    have my sincere congratulations to this profoundly sensed interpretation! O.k., it´s bizarre and unusual as we are used from you, but on the other hand very interesting. There must be also such approaches in the world, I believe, in every case: why not?!
    It´s clear, that Chopin attended another tempo with his prescription "Lento ma non troppo" and his metronome-prescription quarter = 152. He also didn´t write anything of staccato in the accompagniment-chords as you play them sometimes. So at some places your recording sounds very Gouldian. I personally have a big sense for this style, though I play Chopin completely in another way and wouldn´t take Gould as an idol for Chopin-interpretations.

    I personally like the a-major-part more than the first and last part, because you play it more fluently and with a very interesting voicing.

    And one more thought went through my head: if I compare such bizarre interpretations, which are on one side far away of the composers intention, but on the other hand very deeply sensed and only from that point of view convincing, with such recordings, which are in the right tempo and try to follow the composers intention, but are full of flaws and slips (as we recently have had the case on this site here) and quite expressionless, than the bizarre one, which is far from the composers intention, but played deeply felt, expressively and note-perfectly for me is the much better one.

    That´s my personal opinion, but views on music are as different as people are and so the most important matter is to stay tolerant in every case. Me personally I prefer a more simple way of playing Chopin, where me as a subject is not so in the foreground, but the attempt to follow the composers intention.
     
  9. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Well said.

    To dismiss tempo as totally irrelevant and consider the notes and directions of the composer as only raw material with which you are licensed to do anything you feel like, well it may be ok for some people but I believe it serves no purpose except to put yourself above the composer. This is not what making music is about, IMHO. Maybe it was 100 years ago, but not in these times. It certainly does not fit in with PS where so many people do their best to create interpretations that are respectful of the composers's intentions. Would Chopin have sanctioned this one ? I think not, I think he'd be furious, but that is only speculation of course. Is it relevant ? I think it is, but others will think differently.

    But of course any discussion about this is futile, and I know better than to argue with Sandro. Let me just say again that this particular one is not going up on the site.
     
  10. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    As per what Sandro said above - I think he has vacated the premises (again).
     
  11. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    That would be a shame :p
    I was just going to comment on his Liszt Consolation, which is a bit sirupy and pedal-drowned but otherwise not too bad.
     
  12. camaysar

    camaysar New Member

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    I see that the recording is still available on the site, despite threats to expel it. That shows good judgment. Personally, I feel that any sincere artist can do whatever he wants to realize his vision. His only duty is to please himself, not others (including the composer). If a performer pleases others in the process, so much the better - he speaks with a more universal voice. However, once a composer releases his music to the world, then all the world may pick it up and do with it what he will.

    Having said that, Sandro could have done a better job of realizing his vision. His sound can be a bit clunky, his flow uneven, and his effects ungraceful, though I'm sure he did not aim for that. (His "knife thrust" on the second tritone of the coda was obviously intended.)

    Sandro is clearly a strong personality, if not a great player. If there is room in the world for John Cage's 4'33", Andy Warhol's "Empire", Maksim Mrvica's "Grieg Concerto", and "A Fifth of Beethoven", there is room for Sandro Bisotti's "Mazurka of Death".
     
  13. camaysar

    camaysar New Member

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    Ah! I see I have misunderstood. There is a regular series of performances featured here, not just on the forum. A newbie misconception. Yes, I see why you may not want to issue Sandro's performance. He is a "special case" - perhaps better suited to a "conceptual performance" site.

    Great site, great opportunity for pianists!
     
  14. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    That is true, and I don't dispute Sandro's or anyone's right to maul a piece of music anyway they see fit. But not on these premises :wink: We have certain standards to quality and style here (or let's just say we are opinionated on that subject). Some of Sandro's recordings are allright and some are not. Luckily there's YouTube where anything goes.
     

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