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Chopin - Lento con gran espressione

Discussion in 'Submission Room' started by Didier, Jul 2, 2007.

  1. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Techneut wrote:
    Didier, I agree to this at hundert percent. And I think, it´s what I have still suggested you here and there.
    But this is the only true method, to get a feeling for the right rhythm. Later, when you know, how the right rhythm is, you can develop your freedom and rubati again and you will see, how much your playing has changed and how artful it is! I personally do learn a new piece still today very often by playing it several times just with metronome, very unmusical, of course, but so I know, how the right rhythm has to be. And from that point I do develop my artistic intentions and plans.

    Very nice, you posted the link to my thread of Chopins Nocturne with your reply there here. I just didn´t know any more, if you have listened to it, but I have to admit, that I just could not remember and was too lazy to look for it. :wink:

    And not to forget to mention: Bach-playing is really the best school of music I can imagine! :wink: (Are you surprised to hear me say this? :lol: )
     
  2. Didier

    Didier Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Andreas and Chris, you agree against me! :cry:


    Ich auch... :wink:


    OK, that was not good enough. Please listen to this one. May be some magic is no longer here but at least the rhythm is near right ? :roll:
     
  3. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Nah, we unite to help you :wink:

    That sounds a lot more stable indeed, with far less of these jerky arhythmical moments. And I don't feel like this has any less espression than before, how does it feel to you ? Still, feeling for rhythm can't be improved overnight and I continue recommending that you make this the top item on your agenda. The middle section is still a bit jerky and unsure, mostly due to the polyrhythms. And some of the trills are rather too heavy and laboured. But IMO you made great progress here.

    And ( I don't know if anybody here already mentioned this :lol: ) do play Bach ! Remember that Bach was Chopin's god. There is a lot of polyphony and counterpoint in Chopin's music (if not specifically in this piece). I feel I understand Chopin's writing much better than I did before I got to know Bach.
     
  4. Didier

    Didier Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    A bit too much under control... Too slow also. But I cannot afford any longer listening to my first version since I know where all the faults are.:oops:

    I recorded again the trills and the middle section that was missing lightness. I hope this latter version is worth to replace the current one on the site. Thank you for your help. :wink:
     
  5. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    I listened to your two new versions. The last one is indeed the best and has also improved rhythmically a bit compared with your ultimate one.
    There are many rhythmical problems still in the following bars: 13, 19, 23, 24, 28, 32, 46, 50.
    In bar 56, 57 the eigth, to which are no runs above are much too fast compared with the slowing down of those, which have the runs above.
    Of course, I´m only trying to help you, my friend, as you know at hundred percent. :wink: (Sorry, that I may not speak French here. :oops: :lol: )

    Chris is right. Indeed, Bach was appreciated very much by Chopin and a musical exemplar, though he developed his own style, which is very different from Bachs one, of course, because it´s romantic. But on the other side, Chopins music has so much structure and formal architecture, that this fact reminds us of Bachs severeness and logic concerning musical shape (form).
     
  6. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    One can never be too much in control... only control can bring freedom ! It is you who must drive the music, not the other way around. This interpretation did not strike me as too slow. A bit slow maybe, but not unduly so. Besides Andreas' point, I think that the trills should be far more relaxed. But long trills are always difficult (as are short trills :wink: )
    Anyway you are improving with each iteration and that is great.
     
  7. Didier

    Didier Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Thank you Andreas for you new corrections and Chris for your encouragement. I just edited bars 13, 23, 24 and 28 pointed out by Andreas. I did not detect what is wrong in bar 19 (first bar in mid part, LH too shy may be?) and did not check further. Chris, please could you put this one up as a replacement of my current version?

    Chopin - Nocturne in C-sharp minor, Op. post. No. 20
     
  8. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    This I will do, unless Monica gets there before me.
    Then I think you should leave this piece alone for a while. You have a maybe not perfect, but very enjoyable recording, which you could only marginally improve on short notice. Why not study something rhythmical for a while (Bach mabey ? just a thought :wink: ) and see how that will benefit you once you get back to this piece again. In any case it's good to take a long break from a piece and to return to it with fresh insights and newly acquired technique.
     
  9. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    hint hint :wink: ok, it's replaced.
     

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