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Chopin, Ballad Nr. 2, f-major, op. 38

Discussion in 'Submission Room' started by musicusblau, Apr 14, 2008.

  1. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    They may be acceptable but they don't seem to be very scholarly and up-to-date. This is not the first time I picked on someone for deviating from the score, only to find it was the Peters score being wrong. Must be careful with that fron now on :wink:
    Meaning that as far as Chopin concerns, I can only comment on Preludes, Polonaises, Nocturnes, and Rondos. Of these I have the Paderewski, all others are Peters :x
     
  2. Lord Nelson

    Lord Nelson New Member Piano Society Artist

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    At first, nice recording! I like the sound quality. I know how hard this piece is because I played it myself several month ago. In some weeks I wanted to refresh and then record it. Now you were faster than me, grats :) . Nevertheless I'll upload it sometime, too. There are many differences between my expression and yours, that will bring something to be talked about :wink:
    What displeases me a bit is the way you play the lots of following quarter and eighth notes. For me, they often sound too unrhythmically. I think this was already topic here...
    Keep on practicing it! There is more potential.
    And sorry, if my English is nearly incomprehensible :D In German it's much easier to talk about music...
     
  3. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Techneut wrote:
    That´s interesting. I bought mostly pieces in the Henle-edition, so my whole, so quite my whole note-cupboard is blue. :wink: My teachers always recommended Henle, which is in Germany could be the most recommended edition for the piano-works, I suppose.
     
  4. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Lord Nelson wrote:
    Thanks for the praise.

    So, I will be interested in your record, when it is up.

    No, I don´t think, they are really "unrhythmical", the discussion here was, to play them smoother or not.

    Yes, that´s right in every case. I will practice and rerecord the piece. But I will wait to load my rerecord up, because in the last days I took some pain here from having too much rerecorded. :wink:

    I feel with you and excuse me for my very bad English, too. I agree completely. (Da kann ich nur vollkommen zustimmen.) :wink:
     
  5. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Sandro Bisotti wrote:
    Dear Sandro, thank you very much for your kind and always highly estimated opinion, which is so encouraging. I´m very glad, to have you as a friend here.:D :D :D

    That´s very interesting for me, Sandro, but I can not imagine, what you mean concretely, only in an abstract sense. I think, I should listen to a record of Francois, Pogorelich, (who I like, too, and I visited two times a live-concert in Düsseldorf, where he played) and Maria Tipo, (who I don´t know). Unfortunately I have not a record of all the three.
    But a very inspiring tip, you can be sure, I will experiment on the piano in the sense of your suggestion! :D

    Ever so kind, thank you very much! :D
     
  6. Lord Nelson

    Lord Nelson New Member Piano Society Artist

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    Ich kann ja mal versuchen, auf Deutsch zu erklären, was Sandro gemeint hat wegen dem Ende. Ich verstehe und interpretiere es nämlich genauso wie er. Also kurz bevor die paar ruhigen Töne ganz am Ende kommen, gibts ja zunächst dieses "Gewusel" :) und das soll in fortissimo augenblicklich abgebrochen werden, ohne noch das Pedal lang zu halten. Dann eine Generalpause, nicht zu kurz, und danach erst - im völligen Kontrast dazu - mit pianissimo oder wenigstens piano die Schlusstöne spielen, genauso wie am Anfang halt.
    Bist du der Sache etwas näher gekommen? ;)

    P.S.: Sorry for all people who don't understand German :) What stands here was in principle already told by Sandro before. I just tried to make it clearer for musicusblau.
     
  7. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    You must earn a good salary to be able to afford that :wink:

    But yeah they are the best and fully worth their considerable price. All my Peters I've had for a long time. Back when I built my collection, Peters is what you got when you asked for core repertoire, and I was too ignorant to ask for something else. At least I have some Henle Bach editions now, and would even shell out for the clothbound ones, as they are much beter constructed.
     
  8. hyenal

    hyenal New Member Piano Society Artist

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    I have also a Henle for Bach partitas, but I was told from my teacher that for Bach the Bärenreiter is more authentic. But I bought me finally the Henle, because Bärenreiter includes no fingering 8)

    BTW many people say that concerning Chopin the Paderewski edition is the best, is it right? :roll:
     
  9. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    It could well be. My teacher always says this too, and I suppose she should know, being trained in Moscow in the grand Chopin tradition.
     
  10. alf

    alf Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    As to Chopin, the Paderewski Edition is good on average, but nowadays it's surpassed by others, which ones depending on the works involved. For the Etudes the best edition around is the Wiener-Urtext (Badura-Skoda) and the Peters New Critical Edition for Preludes, Ballades and Waltzes (the editors are among the finest scholars, like J.J. Eigeldinger) is state-of-the-art.
     
  11. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    I suppose it's the editor that counts most, not the publisher. Nowadays editors take more pains to go back to the sources. The old Peters editors like Scholtz were more influenced by the histrionic performance practices of past masters. I sometimes see comments (not just in Chopin), that so-and-so played this passage this or that way. Never a reference to the manuscript. Times have changed for sure.
     
  12. alf

    alf Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Yes, what really counts is the editor. Also, in Chopin's case the older editors didn't know important sources of many of his works, mainly copies owned by pupils like Miss O'Meara (later M.me Dubois) and Jane Stirling, which bear interesting markings or variants by Chopin himself.

    The publisher is less important, even if I personally love paper, bound and typography of Henle Edition and WUE, and generally abhor Peters for the opposite reason.
     
  13. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Yes, so true, The Henle even smell nice :wink:
    Having said that, some of these start to badly wear too after intensive use. Not as bad as the Peters though. Very variable quality there.
     
  14. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Lord Nelson wrote:
    Thank you for your effort, of course I understood well, what you told me :wink: and it´s very interesting. So, I write you know a short german answer and after this I try to tranlate it into English (for the others, who are interested and for not to be unpolite):

    Also, ich habe in meiner Henle-Ausgabe ein Pedalzeichen auf dem letzten Fortissimo-Akkord, das erst zwei Takte später oder so wieder aufgehoben wird. Das heißt, dass man den letzten Fortissimo-Akkord im Pedal liegen lassen soll und dann noch in den großen Klangschwall den Beginn der kleinen Schlussreminiszenz an das Anfangsthema hineinspielen soll. Wahrscheinlich hast Du eine andere Ausgabe, stimmt´s? (Doch nicht etwa Edition Peters? :lol: )
    Aber ich finde die Idee, den letzten Akkord nach dem "Gewusel" (super Ausdruck! :lol: ) abprupt abzubrechen auch gut. Ich habe es heute getestet und bin ganz glücklich damit. Ich werde in jedem Fall eine Neuaufnahme machen, vielleicht sogar ein Video, das ich dann auch auf Youtube veröffentlichen werde, mal sehen...(Zeit müsste man haben, ja ja...)
    Ich werde jetzt erst mal eine Arbeits- und Übephase einlegen.

    In English (in short form): I have a pedal sign on the last chord in ff (Coda). That means that the little reminiscence of the begining-theme should be played in this chord hold by pedal for nearly two bars or so. (I have not the score before my eyes at this moment and I am writing just from memory.) But the idea to end the last ff-chord of the coda abruptly pleases me. (That´s what Lord Nelson suggested to me). I feel well with it at this moment. In every case I´m working on this piece now and I decided to improve it.
     
  15. hyenal

    hyenal New Member Piano Society Artist

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    The diligent and enthusiastic two Germans!!!
    I like it ! :D :wink:
     

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