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Chopin, Ballad Nr. 2, f-major, op. 38

Discussion in 'Submission Room' started by musicusblau, Apr 14, 2008.

  1. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    I have tried the ballad nr. 2, op. 38 in f-major. Of course, it´s not perfect,I´m only a "semi-profi", not a profi and I have not so much time to practise (1-2 hours a day, even not every day). In bar 57 I play some notes so surely. In the bars 164-167 I play not a real ff, it´s may be a bit too weak. The accelerando in the bars 184-187 I do with intention. (Like it to play as wild as possible. :lol: ) Is the Coda fast enough or could it be faster in your opinion? (IMO it has to be faster, but it´s difficult for me.) I thought, it could be worth to be put on the site. If one rerecord would be allowed, may be I would try it, if not, it doesn´t matter. :wink:
    In every case I´m very interested in your opinion!

    Chopin - Ballade No. 2 in F major Op. 38
     
  2. juufa72

    juufa72 New Member Piano Society Artist

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    Scheller bitte :wink:
     
  3. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    You mean, schneller?


    The Ballade -- Man, this one always blows me away! Every time I hear it, I end up just shaking my head in disbelief. Congratulations getting through it, and very nicely I might add.

    Nothing but praise on the opening ‘pretty’ section. The Presto con fuoco – It could use a little more fire. That’s the first thing that popped into my mind. I know to play it faster is so hard, but that’s what I’m used to hearing. Also throughout the entire piece, your ff's are not that ff. Most notably at measures 112 and 136 and then again at the long trill starting at 165. The Agitato – I think your tempo is good and I felt more excitement from your playing all through the last page. The ff's were better there too.

    Great job on this very difficult piece and I’ll put it up tomorrow.
     
  4. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Pianolady wrote:
    Thank you, Monica, for your valuable comment. I think you are right in all points and I will work on it.

    Thank you! :D
     
  5. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Juufa 72 wrote:
    Mach es bitte zuerst vor! (Show it to me!) :wink:
     
  6. hyenal

    hyenal New Member Piano Society Artist

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    Sehr klug 8) !

    Congratulations, you have mastered this difficult piece so beautifully!! I think this is a nice performance which everyone can enjoy.

    My only suggestion is that you could play the opening (I mean until 46th bar) more smoothly. For example I hear you make an accent on the 3rd note at the bar 18 and on the 1st note at the bar 21. I understand the reason why you play them so. You wanted to express the decrescendo, didn't you? But IMHO there must be a difference between accents and the loudest note at the crescendo or dec.
    I think the opening should be milder for the contrast to the "wild" storming section, as you make the ending (bar 197-201) as a repeat of 1st theme so nicely.
     
  7. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Hyenal wrote:
    Thank you, Hyenal, for your valuable comment. It´s a possibility to play it smoother and on most of the CD´s you can buy containing this piece you will hear it as you suggested. I liked it to play with a bit more expression, not too eve or smooth. But in the point of the crescendo and decrescendo you are right, I think, it´s probably better to play it as a "continuum", so the third note of bar 18 f.ex. should not be louder than the third note of bar 17, where the decresc. begins. This opinion is following a sever attitude of correctly playing the text of the score, but sometimes I like also to take some liberty from this. (I´m not a representative of the pianistic main stream of today. That´s probably the reason, why I made not a career as concert-pianist and I don´t sell CD´s until now. BTW I´m really glad, I did not make this career.) :wink:

    Hyenal wrote:
    Thank you very much, hyenal, for this encouraging words! :D
     
  8. juufa72

    juufa72 New Member Piano Society Artist

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    Ach so, hier ist das Feuer:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsoUIBcl7iw

    :wink:
     
  9. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Hi Juufa72,
    nice performance, but in tempo not so much faster than me, I think. So, you are Zimerman? I suggested above, that YOU show it to me. Of course, I know much other (and more professional) interpretations of this piece. So, this was not really necessary. :wink:
     
  10. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    I love that man. That is exactly the version I was thinking of.

    This is up, Andreas.
     
  11. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Pianolady wrote:
    Thank you, Monica! :D
     
  12. StuKautsch

    StuKautsch Member Piano Society Artist

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    power and tempo

    I liked this so much I wanted to say *something* in order to encourage you to keep working on it. Don't be afraid to sacrifice a little tempo and even accuracy in order to keep the power up on the last 2-1/2 pages (from about 4 bars before the descending trills). Lots of sound effects in this piece, and they sometimes work even with a few notes out of place. This piece should definitely scare children!

    I like this piece myself but can practice it only when my wife is out of the house. Fortunately, she's a gardener, so it's a "summertime piece".
     
  13. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    A great achievement for sure ! Solidly played, if not quite in tempo in the presto and agitato sections. I agree with Hye-Jin that you could make more of the opening section, that could be more poetic and flowing, and in the beginning the RH melody does not sufficiently stand out - it gets better later on.

    In the Tempo I section there are two fortissimo passages which you play too weka and hurried. Some of the dotted rhythms here are a bit sloppy. Take care not to hurry, one should never do that in Chopin. In the build-up towards the coda you do not observe the decrescendo and meno forte markings, instead you play a sudden forte instead of meno forte. The Agitato is well played even at the slower tempo, and despite some forgivable slips. It sounds sonorous and convincing and I like your accellerando in the build-up to the final fortissimo. Well done !
     
  14. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Re: power and tempo

    Stukautsch wrote:
    This is not a bad idea and I will think about it. Thank you for your interesting comment. :D
     
  15. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Techneut wrote:
    Thank you, Chris, solidly played is also a certain quality. :D

    O.k., I will work on it.

    Thanks for this valuable advices, but in my score I can´t find the decresc. and meno forte markings. In my score stands "sempre forte and marcato in the bass-voice. (I use the Henle-edition.)


    Thanks for this, Chris. :D I think, I should play the other fast parts more in the same style like I play the Coda.
     
  16. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    mellow and lighty sound. I find this version at a very goog, professional level.
    Tempo is not IMHO slow, also in final part. The only think I don't like completely
    (referring your to my conception and my favourite versions: Francois, Pogorelich and Maria Tipo) is
    caused by a my idea more than objective reality: in the "agitato" and in the final (you make this only
    at the end) there is IMHO not that great change of sound and dynamic I expect here.
    I like here a more stormy, "terrible" explosion of sound, with a complete and "other world" contrast
    with the pastoral and dreamy mood of the beginning theme.
    But I repeat, very good playing level, and a pleasure to hear it. Congratulations,
    Sandro
     
  17. juufa72

    juufa72 New Member Piano Society Artist

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    Did I not show it to you? :wink: I love English, it's too easy to argue over semantics.

    I understand what you meant but, majoring in English, I just could not pass up the opprotunity to have fun with words.
     
  18. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Juufa72 wrote:
    O.k., somehow it´s always funny with you. :lol: I like it, but in german I wrote it very exactly: "Mach es (=Mache DU es=YOU do it) bitte einmal vor (show it to me at first)! So, your german seems not to be too perfect.:wink:
     
  19. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Well that explains. I would assume Henle is right then, and I should stop putting my trust in my old Peters scores. Damn, I have so many of those :x
     
  20. hyenal

    hyenal New Member Piano Society Artist

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    I have another scores edited by Paderewski and I have the same thing as in the Henle.
    But is the Edition Peters so bad? Also I use sometimes Peters, esp. in the case the Henle has no scores that I need. But it was always acceptable I think... :roll:
     

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