DONATION STATUS
Needed before 2016-12-31
$ 2,500
So far donated
$ 825

Catoire, Quatre Morceaux, Op. 12, No. 4, Etude-fantastique

Discussion in 'Submission Room' started by Rachfan, May 7, 2010.

  1. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,149
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Chief Operating Officer, retired
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    Last Name:
    April
    First Name:
    David
    LOCATION:
    U.S.A.
    Continuing with the Quatre Morceaux, Op. 12 from 1901 by Georgy Catoire (1861-1926), here is his Morceau No. 4, the “Etude-fantastique”. This one piece in the set bears a dedication to Alexander Goedicke (1877-1957), a colleague, pianist (who had studied with Safonov), composer and professor at the Moscow Conservatory in Catoire’s day. The piece opens in F#m, later travels through E flat, and ends enharmonically in G flat mimicking the F#m tonic heard early in the piece. I hope you’ll enjoy the etude.

    To preview, No. 3, “Nocturne”, will be posted next completing Op. 12.

    Piano: Baldwin Model L Artist Grand (6’3”) with lid raised on the singer prop.
    Recorder: Korg MR-1000
    Mics: Matched pair of Earthworks TC20 small diaphragm, omni-directional condenser mics in A-B configuration

    There are a few fluffs, but this is a hard piece to play.

    Comments welcome.

    David

    Catoire - Quatre Morceaux, Op. 12, No. 4, Etude-fantastique (4:19)
     
  2. felipesarro

    felipesarro New Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2008
    Messages:
    917
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    System Analyst, for now
    Location:
    Brazil
    ICQ:
    41099971
    WLM:
    felipesarro@yahoo.com.br
    LOCATION:
    Brazil
    hi, David!

    so this is the much waited Etude Fantastique! :D
    you said you wanted to play the entire opus, but probably this one would take a long time of practice.

    I enjoyed very much the piece, though no one will take the place of Soirée d'hiver to me, haha. I have such an sick relationship with that piece :!:

    there's only one thing... your page turn at 2'08 was really distracting. I appreaciate your intention of recording full takes... but don't you think that editing could take a place when page turn without interrupting the flow of the music is impossible?

    anyway, nice achievement!
     
  3. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,149
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Chief Operating Officer, retired
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    Last Name:
    April
    First Name:
    David
    LOCATION:
    U.S.A.
    Hi Felipe,

    I appreciate your comments. There are some mistakes in there, but it's a difficult piece. At the moment I feel as though I've "plateaued" with the piece. Perhaps if I were to return to it later, I could fix some of those fluffs.

    I'll see if I can edit the page turn. I'm not too expert with that stuff. I have a hard time with intuitive programs with no apparent logic to them.

    Thanks for listening. :)

    David

    P.S. I just took care of the page turn.
     
  4. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    Messages:
    9,930
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Last Name:
    Breemer
    First Name:
    Chris
    LOCATION:
    Netherlands
    As usual you make a convincing case for this music. This must be a hard one to master, and you are doing fine despite a few small technical issues - they don't distract at all. Good work !!! It is up on the site.
     
  5. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,149
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Chief Operating Officer, retired
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    Last Name:
    April
    First Name:
    David
    LOCATION:
    U.S.A.
    Hi Chris,

    Thanks for your kind words!

    When I was first thinking of doing this etude, my first thought was that it might be best left to the virtuoso pianist, as I cannot realistically hope to play it as well as Hamelin or Attwood. Next, I thought that it would be easier to leave this athletic piece to the younger pianists. Then too, I have a phobia about 16th notes. :lol: (Excuses, excuses!) But as forbidding as the piece is, I did indeed want to play all of Op. 12. So... I knocked down Catoire's "No Trespassing" sign in the first measure and proceeded to learn it. You're quite right, there are some devilish technical issues in there, especially for the amateur pianist, which caused a few fluffs. I think if I let some time go by and then return to it another day, I could smooth out some of those nettlesome spots and add some nice touches that I didn't quite achieve in this initial round.

    Thanks for listening.

    David
     
  6. felipesarro

    felipesarro New Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2008
    Messages:
    917
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    System Analyst, for now
    Location:
    Brazil
    ICQ:
    41099971
    WLM:
    felipesarro@yahoo.com.br
    LOCATION:
    Brazil
    hi, David!

    the flow is better now that you have edited, but now we hear a "clip". hehe
     
  7. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2006
    Messages:
    8,716
    Likes Received:
    1
    Last Name:
    Hart
    First Name:
    Monica
    Hi David,

    I haven't felt like listening to anybody lately, but you consistently listen to me so I like to return the favor. And I'm glad I did - this sounded very nice. And hard!!! Sounds like about a million notes! How long did it take for you to learn?
     
  8. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,149
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Chief Operating Officer, retired
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    Last Name:
    April
    First Name:
    David
    LOCATION:
    U.S.A.
    Hi Felipe,

    Sorry about the clip. That's the first edit I've ever tried, and thought it was pretty good. Can't win. :( I gave up on Audacity and used AVS. At least it's better than the former.

    David
     
  9. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,149
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Chief Operating Officer, retired
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    Last Name:
    April
    First Name:
    David
    LOCATION:
    U.S.A.
    Hi Monica,

    Thanks for listening to the etude! Yes, it's a daunting piece, especially for pianists like me who have less than a "big technique". On the million notes as you put it, to me it sounds almost like three hands playing, because the melody and accompaniment are in the RH with the LH playing a harmonic accompaniment along with taking melody hand-offs from the RH at times. There are many technical complexities there.

    It's hard to say how long I've been working on it exactly. I believe I started it around early March, but was studying it in tandem with the Op. 12 Nocturne, thus splitting my practice time. During the past two weeks, I worked only on the etude. Had I dedicated all of the time from the beginning to the etude, I could have posted it sooner. If I had to guess, I'd say I invested six weeks in it anyway of the limited time I have for practicing.

    Thanks for your nice compliment! :)

    David
     
  10. felipesarro

    felipesarro New Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2008
    Messages:
    917
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    System Analyst, for now
    Location:
    Brazil
    ICQ:
    41099971
    WLM:
    felipesarro@yahoo.com.br
    LOCATION:
    Brazil
    hi, David!

    I admire your courage of not editing at all. I think the only recording of mine which has no edits is Elgar's Salut d'amour. And even so they have slips! This is something I'm trying to avoid at all in my recent recordings (slips, not edits. hehe)

    Is this AVS program free? I like open source softwares, but I had no luck with Audacity. I pretty much prefer Wave Editor, from Nero. It has less features, but Audacity don't satisfy my needs.
     
  11. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2006
    Messages:
    8,716
    Likes Received:
    1
    Last Name:
    Hart
    First Name:
    Monica
    If you guys are interested - a member of one of my other 'groups' just today posted information on free editing software. I have not checked it all out yet, but looks like some promising stuff.

    here is the link:

    http://miccontrol.com/#/micschool/7free ... orwindows/
     
  12. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,149
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Chief Operating Officer, retired
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    Last Name:
    April
    First Name:
    David
    LOCATION:
    U.S.A.
    Thanks for that tip, Monica.

    David
     
  13. hyenal

    hyenal New Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2007
    Messages:
    844
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Ph.D student
    Location:
    Germany
    Last Name:
    Lee
    First Name:
    Hye-Jin
    LOCATION:
    Germany
    Hi David, congrats that you did so well with this gorgeous piece! This is the kind of music which I would never dare to try :? Just from listening I could imagine how difficult it is to play. But at the same time I believe such a brave challenge builds a part of the life of amateur pianists, doesn't it? We grow up as pianists with that and so we're getting better...
    Anyway it's unbelievable that you spent only six weeks for this hard piece. It would take me six months to reach the level of your performance!
     
  14. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,149
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Chief Operating Officer, retired
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    Last Name:
    April
    First Name:
    David
    LOCATION:
    U.S.A.
    Hi hyenal,

    Thanks so much for the nice praise. I appreciate that!

    I have to admit that at first undertaking this very forbidding piece seemed like a terrifying prospect. But I remember the words of Josef Hofmann, "Will it!" So that's basically what I did. Luckily it worked out well. If I were to revisit it later, I'm sure I could polish some things and add some nuances. And I agree with you, whether we're amateurs or not, we can always continue to grow in the art of the piano.

    Thanks for listening!

    David
     
  15. 88man

    88man Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2008
    Messages:
    429
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Boston
    Last Name:
    Vosgerichian
    First Name:
    George
    LOCATION:
    Boston
    Bravo David! You've grabbed the bull by the horns on this piece. It is beautifully played as your intensity always remains musical and well poised in control. In such a grand piece as this, those recording peaks can really creep up on us. Stylistically, there are also some elements of Scriabin which I like within the piece. This is a great achievement, David! What's next?....
     
  16. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,149
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Chief Operating Officer, retired
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    Last Name:
    April
    First Name:
    David
    LOCATION:
    U.S.A.
    Hi George,

    Thanks for the compliments! "Taking the bull by the horns" is a good analogy. To me it felt like grappling with a titanic force of nature! :lol: This is a piece where I doubt you can ever declare victory. In the dark struggle with the piece you must eke out a draw and plan to re-engage it another day. You're quite right about the Scriabin influence. Catoire was also influenced by Tchaikovsky, Faure and Wagner. Stylistically I find late romanticism, impressionism and expressionism in his music.

    To finish up Op. 12 I'm pulling together No. 3, the "Nocturne". Typical of Catoire, he's inserted some challenges there as well. Thanks for listening!

    David
     
  17. wiser_guy

    wiser_guy New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2008
    Messages:
    367
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    System Software Engineer
    Location:
    Athens, Greece
    LOCATION:
    Athens, Greece
    I can't imagine what the source of your fears on adequate technique might be, David. I was reading the comments while listening and I honestly think you are being a little harsh on yourself. I heard a professional performance. You sound very sure about your stylistic choices and risks taken - essentially in such music. If there are things above your level, you surely know how to hide them. To me, the flow is right and natural and you say what you want to say as usual, in a very musical manner.
     
  18. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,149
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Chief Operating Officer, retired
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    Last Name:
    April
    First Name:
    David
    LOCATION:
    U.S.A.
    Hi Pantelis,

    I'm glad you had a moment to listen to this Catoire etude and enjoyed it! I very much appreciate your thoughts on my playing too. Yes, I can achieve a musical intention, but I've never been great with faster tempi with intricate figurations. I don't know if it's because I don't read the notes fast enough, or lack coordination, or lack dexterity in my hands. I have read that this has everything to do with the nervous system and muscle motor response, which varies by person. For example, those Scarlatti pieces you play so beautifully? I wouldn't dare to touch one of them! So usually I confine my efforts to the lyrical side of the repertoire where I feel much more secure. It's only when I find a "must play" piece, feel adventurous, and become determined, do I have a chance of succeeding with it. I'm glad this etude worked as well as it did, although in the future I need to revisit it to smooth some things out, add some nuances, and do more with the dynamics. But at least I have it working in a respectable way at the moment. Thanks again for your reassurances about this performance. It means a lot to me.

    David
     
  19. alf

    alf Active Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2007
    Messages:
    1,168
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Piemonte, Italy
    Last Name:
    Bertazzi
    First Name:
    Alfonso
    LOCATION:
    Piemonte, Italy
    I very much second Pantelis' comment. The only substantial difference between amateurs and professionals should be in quantity, not in quality (I'm loosely quoting a great pianist's remark, can't remember whom, maybe Hofmann): a smaller working repertoire, an inferior mechanism, less stamina, but certainly not less musicality and artistic consciousness. There's not a single moment in that etude that you don't solve musically and in that sense you own, presumably not a shining mechanism, but by all means a very good technique.
     
  20. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,149
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Chief Operating Officer, retired
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    Last Name:
    April
    First Name:
    David
    LOCATION:
    U.S.A.
    Hi Alfonso,

    Thanks for your thought-provoking response! I believe that what you mention is very probably true. I can tell you that I'm definitely my own worst critic. To an extent that's a very good attribute, as it causes me to listen carefully to myself as I play. But the danger lies in being overly critical. After all, we're all mortals! Back in the 1960s when I was a teenager, I recall my first teacher saying that despite any technical difficulties, I always knew how to put a piece over to an audience. Probably I should be thankful for that particular attribute, which is certainly essential to artistic performance. It might be that I "sweat the small stuff too much" as they say. Come to think of it, I recall in Arthur Rubinstein's autobiography, "My Early Years", his mentioning that while a young student could probably play a certain passage with her left foot, he could execute it with only the utmost effort. Goes to show that even the most successful professionals have those same kinds of concerns sometimes. (That's why I don't watch child prodigies on YouTube!) After all is said and done, you have to believe in yourself. I need to remind myself of that occasionally. Thanks again for your thoughts.
     

Share This Page