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BOT 10.1

Discussion in 'Technique' started by Anonymous, Oct 21, 2006.

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  1. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Yes, that is what I meant. It's just how you read that sentence.

    Yes there is. I am surprised you ask ! Technique is about doing things right, or almost right.
     
  2. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    OKAY :?



    Are you people saying that wrong notes were played



    or that wrong notes were learned



    If its the former self already knew when the rec was posted some werent correct (80% sounds like a less exaggerated number)



    if its the latter please tell self where the wrong notes come in :x


    Selfs ear registered around 40 noticeable mistakes

    in a piece this short thats a %^&@ load of mistakes

    especially seeing how the continuity is broken so often

    As far as accuracy goes thats about 96%

    which is awesome ISO

    considering how little time self spends practicing lately

    self actually has time to practice today:D

    self will go over the entire piece with the score to see how self memorized it


    Hopefully it will not look as though self creates selfs own transcription of the piece 8)


    80-20 rule - 80% of the most important work is done in the last 20% of the time :wink:

    Learning the notes and mastering the notes is the easy part

    its the interpretation that is the really challenge
     
  3. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Well that is hard to hear, especially in such a difficult etude played at full speed. Myself, I know darn well what all the right notes should be, but I will always miss 10-20% of them (not counted of course, just a feeling) when trying to approach a decent speed. It frustrates the hell out of me.

    It's probably more. Of course I said "half" just to tickle you :lol:

    Ah but that would take a while. Why not get that score down from the attic, if you can still find it, and see for yourself ? Keep listening to yourself, and keep close to the score, it really works.

    :lol: Yes that is how it often goes in practice. Not a good thing though.

    Generally, this is very true. Though in an etude, the balance is more towards the notes than usual. You can sort of get away with a full-speed note-perfect etude even if there is not much in the way of interpretation. That does not work with a Mazurka or Polonaise.
     
  4. johnmar78

    johnmar78 New Member Piano Society Artist

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    [
    Are you people saying that wrong notes were played



    or that wrong notes were learned



    Robot, when i said about your delibrate skip keys to a higher key that is perhaps is so called" wrong notes were played and learned". That make sense now.

    You need do 8-12 hours a week, regarless this etude or not but to keep your finger boiling.
    this is what i suggest;
    1) high finger action, mf playing X2 to lift the knockle joint-3third joint.-delibrate high action-slow playing.

    2) followed by 2X close finger action-glue to the key, no lifting, work on 1 finger joint only. mf playing slow.

    I hope this helps.
     
  5. PJF

    PJF New Member Piano Society Artist

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    Oh, bother! :? He's really asking for it.

    Reality check: This etude is currently out of your technical range. Your maximum tempo is probably around 1/4 note = 60. You need months or years more training to play it as fast as you want to. (I can't run a four-minute-mile, no matter how much I want to and there's not a damned thing I can do about it.) Be honest to yourself.

    If self heard 40 mistakes, self needs to clean self's ears.

    But seriously, I stopped counting at 300 note errors. You must understand that when others offer criticism, it is done in a spirit of goodwill. Perhaps the area you should work on first is accepting your shortcomings and seeking solutions to fix them honestly, instead of being defensive. This is never an easy or comfortable proposition. The Chopin Etudes are the Mount Everest of pianism; they demand everything of you. If you're up to the challenge, that is.

    Concentrate on Chopin's Preludes first. The etudes can come later.

    ps, Did you read my critiques of johnmar78's 10/1 in the audition room?

    PF
     
  6. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    There's also this: While the average percentage of wrong notes is perhaps not so very high (and not actully very important), there are certainly some bars in the middle where about half of the notes are wrong. That spoils the performance and sets the perception for the rest of the piece. This is the spot where fatigue sets in and endurance is severely tested. I have exactly the same problems there, and I guess most people do until they are trained to the max.
     
  7. MindenBlues

    MindenBlues New Member Piano Society Artist

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    The Chopin Etudes are no real Etudes in the sense as finger gymnastics to me. They are musical masterpieces, and can well be used as concert pieces. They also don't need to be played very fast in the first rank.
    Chopin itself played some etudes in his rare concerts, I know that was the case for 25/1 and 25/2. I cannot imagine that he liked to present finger gymnastics, that was against his musical perception.

    And Chopin asked that someone plays his 10/3 etude on his death bed!!!

    No, especially for the Chopin Etudes the interpretation is the challenge. Full speed note-perfect etudes tend to sound boring, if they are bloodless.
     
  8. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Called a jerk much?


    This aint outta selfs range -that's an absurd statement by all means


    this rec was done for the fun of it after not practicing for a long az time, and most of the pianos at school is are off by a two steps in the high note, one step in the lower


    of course there are more than 40 - like there'd be an exact number to the amount of mistakes in a performance


    the fact that it was posted on the SDC as taking lesson from Comme - and individual how is notorious for posting crappy recording - is evidence of how awful self knew it was


    the defensive crap was an act - but now self is truly insulted



    jeez you're a kill joy :roll:



    And about running a four minute mile



    you cant run one



    but self can 8)



    REALIZM IS FOR THE WEAK!!!!


    AHHAHAAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAAHHAHHAAHH :twisted:



    EDIT:

    After rereading self posts self is unable to see where you believe self was being defensive

    therefore the above statements will receive a -1 off the total seriousness level

    but its still pretty darn high :evil:
     
  9. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest



    Self asked for info to correct this problem on the first page of this topic

    however

    self has just got done actually practicing this piece instead of just seeing how fast it can be played

    its seems that - in the case of the ascending c eb a eb arp - either rotating aroung the fourth finger or around an imaginary extended 2nd finger the arp becomes easier to perform

    self spent a few minutes holding down A with 4 then rotating, cycling, and doing both with 2 and 4 on the ebs

    this made the execution much easier and gave it that feeling that it only needed to be repeated to control rather than feeling little to no control at all.

    for the descending eb bb eb c and eb ab eb cb arps it seems holding the hand so that the pinking is almost totally in line with the wrist and stretching the thumb helps with these arps

    Self is still figuring the a e a c# arp

    self has questions as to whether or not these would apply for someone with smaller hands
     
  10. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    robot :-

    Please refrain from becoming personal to the point of being insulting. Maybe this was ok on the Chopin forum but it isn't here. If you can not handle critique in a normal way you had better not be posting in the Audition Room - or anywhere else for that matter.

    I have moved this topic into the Technique section, where it belongs. Audition Room is intended to submit recordings for possible inclusion on the site, not for recordings that you know are only halfway there yet.
     
  11. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest


    Self will completely stop because it seems insanity does not register

    self apologizes :oops:

    self found out the thing about the audition room after already posting

    the post was a joke

    stop seriously criticizing it

    please 8)




    Everything is within one's range

    to self this is an insult of the greatest degree


    never put yourself down, in an attempt to make a realistic comparison with self

    how does one run a four minute mile?

    its starts with belief

    then practice

    but without belief practice is irrelevant

    self whole heartedly believes that if you say you can to do something

    you can

    but if you say you cant -youll always be right


    Now lets really be honest

    why is it that so many people are unable to run a mile in 4 minutes?

    Virtually everyone's body is capable of this feat

    save for atheletes like Lance armstrong, people's bodies act almost completely the same

    the reason

    at some people they saw this slender ectomorphic guy pushing down track in an insane fashion

    and instead of thinking -wow thats great and i can be like that too

    they think somewhere along the lines of -wow thats great and ill probaby never be able to do something like that

    they only see the finished product

    they dont see the runner training day and night for years to get to that level

    and they discount themselves before they try

    and if they do try, they try with doubt in the back of their minds

    because no matter how damned hard i try "I can never be like that"

    there is no such thing as try- there is only do and not do

    If you havent gotten to where you want to be you havent invested enough of the right time

    the right time meaning: time spent learning how to shave off even milliseconds

    much like sitting down and doing hannon mindlessly wont help your technique

    simply going for a jog with no real purpose wont help you run a 4 minute mile



    Self know good and well what it takes to play this piece

    self is in no way delusional or asking to be told self cant do something

    self knows that rec was full of mistakes

    What you dont know:

    self spends two-three days max at the piano a week

    Since quitting self's second job this time will increase

    Before there was only time for maintainence and a little fun

    progression with all the pieces self is learning was not really an option

    fun is what the recording was

    not an attempt to show the world how flawlessly and effortlessly self playing was :lol:

    All of selfs post, even the seemly angry one

    was done with a smile on selfs face (though a little less so with the above one)
     
  12. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Dear i m Robot,
    It would be nice if you could post without all the spaces between the lines. Takes forever to read.
     
  13. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Yes, agree. There is no need to draw attention to self, er, yourself, by using funny language, omitting dots and commas, and inserting blank lines. It will only make people stop reading your posts. Also, jokes should be recognizable as such, otherwise they are not jokes.
     
  14. johnmar78

    johnmar78 New Member Piano Society Artist

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    self, you must to learn the patience like me to handle all the critique. Think it open like a two way tunnel.
    This is the whole idea of improving your playing. My face is thick can handle all sorts of critiqu and it deosnot bothering me.

    Thanks For Chris and everyone else.
     
  15. PJF

    PJF New Member Piano Society Artist

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    I suggest that robot refrains from posting joke recordings. I do not have the time nor desire to entertain this sillyness. What audacity! I'm not a killjoy; if you had simply said it was a joke, I would've listened to it, laughed hysterically and moved on without wasting my time on a critique. Please do not directly address me again.

    PJF
     
  16. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Im sorry. It was wrong of me to tell you not to tell me something it out of my reach. You seem to have some good theories. Many of which I was already applying -before even having read them. Unfortunately your post appears to be more of a put down than a critique. Facts mixed with rude remarks is what it is.

    If you read all the posts you would have learned that the recording was a joke. And if you omitted the smart alec remarks, your post would not have met any negativity. Coming at all people in the same manner will eventually lead to conflict. We are all different and come from different places. For instance, using phrases like "really check" where I come from, would get one punched in the face.

    Appearance means everthing, intention means nothing -as this entire topic clearly shows.
     
  17. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Now, you two stop bickering. Or take it further in a PM exchange if it must be fought out until the bitter end. I have locked this topic.

    We will indeed appreciate robot's postings more if they make some sense and are written in normal style and language. I guess this forum is a bit too serious (or boring, if you wish) for practical jokes and 'insanity'-type postings.
     
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