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Beethoven - Op. 27, No. 2, 1rst movement.

Discussion in 'Submission Room' started by Didier, Jul 13, 2007.

  1. Didier

    Didier Member Piano Society Artist

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  2. Chaotica

    Chaotica New Member Piano Society Artist

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    OK, I have to post something positive again... :wink:

    I bet you'll have much fun with all the different strong opinions on this piece! :) And it's indeed very, very hard to give an objective review on this. I'd say your tone is very soft, I heard no ugly notes. You hold a very steady rhythm, but also hints of rubato where appropriate. A good and atmospheric performance!

    Now my strong personal opinion: it should be faster because it's 2/2 instead of 4/4 and Beethoven's pedal instructions should be followed exactly - that means: no dampers.
     
  3. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist

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    Hi,
    I think you played this with a nice, sensitive touch. Tempo is good too.
    Bars 16 - 18, I'm not used to hearing the bottom RH B that strongly on the triplets. Not that that is bad, just different. I could also have used a little more volume on the low bass notes there.
    Bar 63 and 65 - I think your rhythm is off. If you count this is 4, the RH b-sharp and the LH g-sharp come down together on the fourth beat. It's just like when those melody notes are an octave higher such as in bar 5 and 6. At least I think so - been playing it that way forever. I'll be embarrassed when someone tells me I'm wrong.
     
  4. Chaotica

    Chaotica New Member Piano Society Artist

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    Oh, I forgot to add that you did something weird with the left hand octave in bar 2. It isn't audible, which isn't good because the harmony doesn't change that way. And Monica is right about bars 63 and 65, strange that you seem to have problems there, while it's perfect in other places. Still good playing, though!
     
  5. Didier

    Didier Member Piano Society Artist

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    Thank you Chaotica and pianolady for your careful reviews. I agree about the mistakes at bars 63-65 and the LH accident at bar 2. I also agree that the crescendo-decrescendo of the bass at bars 16-18 should be rather done at RH. I intend to correct all that in a next recording.

    For the tempo, you may be right Chaotica. But this movement becomes magic for me when it is is played so slowly. The most beautiful recording that I know is from Radu Lupu. He plays it still slower, about 30 seconds more. The quality of his control of the dynamics is extraordinary. I think that playing it faster makes the interpretation easier but cannot achieve a so beautiful feeling.
    About the pedal instruction from Beethoven, IMO it seems difficult to be applied strictly with a modern piano, still more difficult at a faster tempo. The instruments existing at that time (called piano-forte today) did no have a so strong resonance like our modern pianos. Nevertheless, I am going to try...
     
  6. Didier

    Didier Member Piano Society Artist

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    I kept it slow. :wink:
    I tried with the forte pedal on all time: it is horrible.
     
  7. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist

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    I wish my piano had a 'forte' pedal. (I'm joking - I take it you mean the damper pedal?)

    This time I think your tempo is too slow. It's slower than the other version, right? But as far as sound goes, if I'm understanding that you didn't touch the pedal at all, it sounds pretty good. There are only a couple spots where the pedal would have smoothed out a big leap. So why not just use it those places. A nice compromise, maybe.
    Unfortunately, the rhythm is still off at the end. I think one of the measures came off correctly, but you were too late on the others. Just count each triplet in 4/4 time and come down on the fourth beat. It should work.


    edit- came back on, because now I'm not sure what pedal you are talking about. :?:
     
  8. Didier

    Didier Member Piano Society Artist

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    Damned! I repeated the same error at one of the two wrong bars of the previous recording. I have just re-recorded the end and make a cut-paste. :wink:
    I am very lucky and much grateful to you that you tell me my errors, dear pianolady. :D
    What I called the forte pedal (la pédale forte in French) is the damper pedal, I guess: the right one. Actually I use it along all the piece but I remove it and put it again immediately for avoiding an acoustic mess at harmony changes.
    Yes, it is still a bit slower than my previous recording. It is the exact tempo of Radu Lupu. You may find it too slow since I am far from having his talent. :(
     
  9. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist

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    I don't think the cut and paste worked. The errors are still there. I am not looking at the score right now, but they are exactly at 6:31 and 6:44.
     
  10. Didier

    Didier Member Piano Society Artist

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    :oops: :oops: :oops:
    Yes, I do not understand what happens...
    I look at the score and I play. It seems OK. Then I record. I think it is OK now. I listen to the recording: it is not.
    :evil:
    I apolologize for your spend time.
     
  11. Didier

    Didier Member Piano Society Artist

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    Edited (link to an older recording removed)
     
  12. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist

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    Yeah! You did it! :D
    Nice job.
     
  13. robert

    robert New Member Piano Society Artist

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    Much better and I have put it up.
     
  14. Didier

    Didier Member Piano Society Artist

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    Hi,

    I recorded again this one. My first recording was rather extreme because of a very slow tempo, may be not right according to the Beethoven notation 'alla breve' as reported by Andreas Schiff in his public piano lectures about the Beethoven's piano sonatas. But I like this tempo.

    This new recording has a rather conventional tempo, still much slower than the one recommended by Andreas Schiff, which I am not convinced by; it saves more than one minute playing time with respect to my first recording. Also the sound contributes to a character that might be felt as more sunlight that moonlight.

    Despite what I said above, I prefer it to the previous one. If you do not have an opposite recommendation, I would like that it be put up on the site instead of the previous one.
    Thanks in advance to spend time for listening.

    Didier
     
  15. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist

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    Hi Didier,

    I like your tempo on this. I have not listened to András Schiff's lectures on Beethoven, but I am going to see him play on Nov. 2nd. He's playing several Beethoven sonatas. Don't think he is doing this one, though, but you never know...

    Anyway, I was listening and getting ready to put this up, but then a little problem occurred when I got to the end and I did not put it up. The thing is, your rhythm on the 7th and 5th bars from the end is wrong. You come in late on the LH dotted G-sharp/16th note - so the counting is off. If you count this in 4/4, then the dotted note should come down on the 4th beat. Since this piece is so well-known, and probably many, many people come to PS to hear examples of it, then I think we have to have this totally accurate. Sorry.

    Also, I don't know if this is intentional or not, but in bars 10-12, your RH thumb is pretty loud on all the first beats of the triplets. I notice you don't do this before these bars or after them, so maybe you are taking some 'artistic license', here?
     
  16. Didier

    Didier Member Piano Society Artist

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    Oh, once again this rhythm mistake... I apologize. :oops:

    It was. I need to do something here. Thank you Monica for the 'artistic license'. :wink:
     
  17. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist

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    I did not read back through the earlier posts, but I just did now and I see that I said exactly the same things over a year ago. So, ok - the artistic license thing is fine - I won't bug you about that anymore. We also mentioned pedaling before, and I should say that your pedaling is good here. All you need to do is fix that rhythm at the end.
     
  18. Didier

    Didier Member Piano Society Artist

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    I will fix that in the coming days. :)
    I am going to remove my faulty recording.
     
  19. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist

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    Hi Didier,
    I´m waiting for your new version, because you removed the old new one. :wink:

    Hi Monica,
    It´s really great, that you´ll have the opportunity to listen to Andras Schiff on 2nd November. I read, that he made a complete recording of the Beethoven-Sonatas in a public concert hall. I meat him in former times several times.
     
  20. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist

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    Oh, did he do that too? I knew about Barenboim, but not Schiff.

    I am pretty ignorant when it comes to Schiff. I’ve only listened to him play the Bach aria when I was getting ready to record it, and for some reason I thought he was one of those pianists that people say is one of the best Bach players. And when I realized that this concert was coming up, I thought I'd be hearing him play a lot of Bach, but he is playing all Beethoven, so I’m sure he plays everything well. I'm looking forward to the concert. There are two other members going too.
     

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