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Bach: Prelude and Fugue D-major, BWV 850!

Discussion in 'Submission Room' started by musicusblau, Mar 24, 2009.

  1. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Andreas - I also have all the tools for tuning my piano - the wrench, the rubber pointy things that you stick in between the strings, tuning forks, and also one of those little tuning card/devices. It's actually something my son used in band for tuning up his trombone, but it registers any instrument. So I tried working with it, but when I press the piano key, the needle on the device hits center but doesn't stay there. It begins to shift right or left as the sound waves start to dissipate. Does your Korg device keep the needle in the center for a longer time? I know....I should go hunting for your other thread where you have this information - Ok, bye...
     
  2. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Hi Monica,
    of course, I will help you with your tuning-questions. I know those little tuning-advices for brass-instruments, because some of my pupils have them, too. I´m not sure, if you can tune a piano with them, I have to admit. But if the needle stays not in the middle, the tone in this case is too high or to deep. So, you have to tune until the needle is right and mostly steady in the middle. This is the case, if I tune with my Korg-advice. Of course, the needle stays as long (mostly) in the middle as the tone is quite loud and steady. As soon as the frequencies go down, the needle goes to the left.

    I have looked for the thread for you and David (it´s the thread of prelude and fugue in b-flat-major). See link below, please:
    http://server3.pianosociety.com/new/php ... 37&start=0

    Here I have put a picture of my Korg MT1200 and its temperament-specifications, but somehow I can´t find any more the picture of my Korg MT1200, but only that one of the temperament-specifications, is it lost?
    This is really a useful thread, also because of the explanations of Pantelis.
     
  3. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Ok, thanks Andreas. Next time I am too impatient to wait for my piano tuner, I will purchase that Korg machine and try tuning myself. Especially now that we are getting into the kind of weather where the temperatures fluctuate so much. Some days my windows are open and the next day they are closed and the furnace is running again. Hate to see how badly the humidity levels are changing inside my house, which as we know causes the piano to go out.

    As to your picture disappearing - Chris one day decided to clean out the unnecessary attachments but accidentally deleted some photo attachments as well. Kind of random though. Only a few photos have disappeared. But that's ok, I think I remember what your Korg maching looked like. I'll talk to you more about it when I get one.

    Talk to you in a couple days! :wink:
     
  4. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Yes I have these bouts of cleanup fever. We can't keep everything forever, especially big files. The server would eventually clog up if I did not do this.

    Also, I tend to delete very large photos that make the forum too wide for the screen so that you have to scroll left and right all the time. I find that enormously irritating. Can't remember if this one was like that or not. If not, mea culpa. Still, everybody, please upload only photos that snugly fit on a medium-sized screen !
     
  5. s_winitsky

    s_winitsky Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    This is a very nice and expressive performance Andreas. I enjoyed it and listened to it a few times this week, both the prelude and the fugue.


     
  6. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Pianolady wrote:
    Wow, that´s a good decision, I think, Monica. I´ll try to help you as well as I can from thousands of miles away. But notice, that my Korg MT1200 is over 20 years old. I think, you can´t get exactly the same model, but a newer and better one. You should inform yourself very well about these tuning-advices, before you buy one. In every case you should buy a good one, which is suitable for piano-tunings. So, welcome in the club. :wink:

    Okidoki! :wink:
     
  7. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Techneut wrote:
    No problem, Chris. I think, you are pretty right with this.
     
  8. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    s_winitsky wrote:
    Thank you very much, Stan. It motivates me to make new recordings, if I know, that I have listeners, who like them and listen to them several times. That means much to me.
     
  9. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Well, I just looked for that MT1200 and I don't think they make it anymore. The only one I found is being sold on Ebay and the current price was around $350. Yikes, I didn't know they were that expensive! I dunno....I may just keep calling my piano tuner every three months like I do now. Unless you know of another decent brand/model of tuners?


    Edit: I just found a couple other tuners but they are twice as high as that other one - between $600 and $900 dollars. :x Oh, well....
     
  10. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Hi Andreas,

    The Korg MT1200 is no longer available.

    The big rage now among piano tuners is the Sanderson Accu-Tuner IV. The price on that unit is $1,500 U.S.! Given the fact that I record frequently like you and some of the other members, I generally do a tuning every three months at $125 per tuning. (My practicing before doing a recording is quite intense and will eventually knock the piano out of tune, causing complaints if I record with the piano in that state.) Not taking into account any rate increases for future tunings, it would take 12 tunings over a three year period with the Sanderson to reach the pay-back point, which probably would be worth it in the long run. Everything beyond that would be a full and free benefit to the user. It is tempting, because it looks fairly easy to use, but the up-front price is still daunting.

    David
     
  11. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Wow, David. I guess I am lucky, because my piano tuner charges me only $65. I wonder what everybody else here pays.
     
  12. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    I´m a bit astonished, I have to admit. I looked on the Korg-homepage:
    http://www.korg.de/produkte/tuner-metro ... fekte.html
    and I have found out, that the most expensive is the DT4 for 59 Euro, which is not much money for a tuning-advice. I have paid nearly 400 Euro (800 DM then) for my Korg MT 1200 and this is nearly 20 years ago.
    So, probably David is right, that there are other brands on the market in high quality now. Korg does not produce any more high-quality tuning-advices, if I´m right.
     
  13. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    If anyone wants to see the Sanderson Accu-Tuner IV, here is one of the websites where you can view it and read about it. It's actually a fairly small unit that can sit up on the struts over the soundboard of a grand piano. Here's the link:

    http://pianotuningtucson.com/pianotunin ... -tuner-iv/

    Hi Monica:

    On tuning rates, I think there are many variables. For example:

    Training: A diploma from a piano tuning and maintenance school would lend itself to a higher rate for the tuner.

    Experience: An appreciable number of years in the trade add value, so can add to the rate.

    Geography: Higher prevailing rates in some regions than in others

    Specific skill levels: Some people only tune; others include action regulation; and still others even rebuild pianos as well. My tuner does all three, so probably that's why his rate is high. In the U.S., I believe the range is generally between $75 and $125 per hour.

    Certification: If a person is a Registered Piano Technician (RPT), that can add onto the rate.

    Competition: If there are many capable and available tuners in a city, I would think that rates would be lower due to competition. But in a city like mine with only two tuners, both in high demand, rates are higher due to scarcity.

    I'm probably not thinking of other contributors to rates, but this is good for a start anyway.

    David
     
  14. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Hi David,

    It probably is a 'supply and demand' issue as far as rates go. My tuner is also a technician and is a certified member of the Piano Technicians Guild, yet he charges a much lower rate than yours.
    (I hope he doesn't see this ;)) I live in a pretty big town, though, which is surrounded by a lot of other big towns and there are a lot of pianos around here that need servicing. So my guy is a 'busy' piano tuner.

    Thanks for the information on the tuning machine. Maybe one of these days....
    Andreas - you are lucky you bought yours when you did!
     
  15. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Hi Monica,

    Yeah, I watched a video of the Sanderson being used by a tuner. In tests, it produced a much more accurate tuning than those done by ear. And it's so easy. You punch in the note on the keypad, sound the tone, and if the red lights spin left, it's flat, and if right, sharp. So as you turn the tuning lever the lights will eventually form a straight vertical line meaning correct pitch. It seems idiot proof, even for me. :lol: So with tunings at $125, I'm sorely tempted... but the price is so steep.

    My city is the third largest in the state, but it's like an island in a wilderness. As soon as you're a few miles beyond the city limits, you're quickly out in moose country. But, if tunings were $65 here, I wouldn't be so intrigued by the Sanderson. So celebrate that rate while it lasts!

    David
     
  16. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Rachfan wrote:
    Hi David,
    it would be interesting for me, how the indication reacts in higher and lower frequencies. Usually this is the problem with my Korg MT1200. The needle works quite exact in the regions of nearly little c to c´´, but the other tones you have more or less to tune by ear, because the indication is very unexact/unreliable (the needle always shows a back and fill).
    But I also have to say, that the price of this advice doesn´t turn me on. :roll:
     
  17. Rachfan

    Rachfan Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Hi Andreas,

    You could be right about having to tune the very low and very high registers by ear with the Sanderson. I do recall this: When I was a kid, and before the digital age (yes, I'm fairly ancient I guess), tuners often used then an electric machine based on the stroboscope. So when a tone was sounded, the strobe pattern in the display would drift left if flat or right if sharp. The trick then was to freeze the apparent motion of the strobe in stationary position, indicating that the note was at correct pitch. I also clearly remember that the low and high registers had to be done by ear, the same as what you experience with your electronic Korg. Whether the Sanderson has overcome that problem, such that you can tune the entire scale with it, I don't know. But if it were true, that would make it all the more enticing--except for the god awful price.

    Here is my conjecture on the price: The last thing that professional tuners would want is that their suppliers offer a digital tuning device at a reasonable price, which could only decrease their volume of business as more pianists would tune. The manufacturer, likewise understanding that sensitive issue, might then select a manufacturer's recommended price for retail suppliers that would be quite acceptable to tuners who could very quickly hit the payback point and recoup the cost within perhaps one week of tunings. But that same recommended price could also be high enough to serve as a substantial barrier, making it financially unfeasible for a pianist needing only occasional tunings to consider purchasing the device, as recouping the cost would take several years. So the price would in no way reflect actual costs of materials, manufacturing, inventory, overhead and distribution as well as profit margin. In fact, the price would be very substantially and artificially inflated to make it desirable for one group of customers to consider, but very undesirable for the other group. I could be wrong, but....

    David
     
  18. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Hi David,
    thank you for your detailed reply (your replies are always and also a very good school of excellent English to me, so have double thanks :D ). All you write about the tuning and the price sounds very reasonably to me. So, I´m not sure, if the new Sanderson is better than my old Korg. It think, I shall use my old Korg-advice as long as possible, since I´m satisfied with the results. If it will break down one day, I have to look for a new and adequate one. (But this hopefully will be a problem of the future.)
     
  19. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Hi Andreas,

    In case you don't know this, Pantelis has created a thread in the Useful Resources Forum about piano tuning.
     
  20. musicusblau

    musicusblau Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

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    Thank you, Monica. :D
     

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