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Arpeggio perfection

Discussion in 'Technique' started by Piano21, Jun 26, 2010.

  1. Piano21

    Piano21 New Member

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    i can't play fast arpeggio very well, especially in white key (for me, it's very hard to play fast arpeggio in C Major, F Major, and G Major)...is there any suggestion for practicing fast arpeggio?
     
  2. keyboarclass

    keyboarclass New Member

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    Chopin wasn't concerned if they were not legato - it's the timing that matters.
     
  3. Piano21

    Piano21 New Member

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    but my finger always make a mistake when i reached 3rd octave...
     
  4. keyboarclass

    keyboarclass New Member

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    I think it's a memory thing - go slower but also realize for the body the notes are in a very different place three octaves up.
     
  5. 88man

    88man Member Piano Society Artist

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    Practice ff, and equalize the weakest fingers as much as possible by strengthening regimens. That means the 4th and 5th fingers. Keep fingers curved, not curled. For R.H. arpeggios, make sure the wrist is straight with your arm, so no angled wrists, and after you play the thumb, place it under immediately after the note is played, and maintain it there until you play it again. You will see that the thumb will be right on the note as you go C E G C' E' G' C'' etc. This way you can go very fast. Don't skip notes until you play the next note, it will serve to stabilize and give you a point of reference. In other words, don't remove the thumb until you play the 2nd finger; don't remove the 2nd finger until you play the 3rd finger; and don't remove the 3rd finger until you play the thumb on the second octave, etc... This will prevent you from producing hiccups in motion and sound and produce a uniform arpeggio. Simultaneously the hand should move as fast to keep pace with the notes in the direction of motion.

    Practice arpeggios with a nickel coin on top of your hand. If the coin falls off, then you're not doing it correctly. Good Luck!
     
  6. keyboarclass

    keyboarclass New Member

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    Chopin is saying don't worry about that, just get the movements smooth.
     
  7. 88man

    88man Member Piano Society Artist

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    88man:
    keyboarclass:
    That's a contradiction for almost all hands except for Chopin who had the most supple of fingers. The poster said that he/she can't predictably play arpeggios fast on white keys beyond the 2nd octave. That leads me to indicate a consistency issue in technique because the stretch is more wider on all white keys, it's more difficult to play an arpeggio more smoothly.

    If you don't worry about holding the 3rd finger at all, or remove the 3rd finger too soon, not only you'll get a hiccup, but you'll miss the note because your hand is already in motion, and you might slide pass the note and hit a crack in a multi-octave passage. There is no way to play an arpeggio fast, smoothly, and consistently, both dynamically and rhythmically, if one doesn't try to at least "think legato" in execution. And if you hop from the 3rd to the 1st finger, one is unintentionally liable to play an triplet of ascending chord triads; Even worse, to get a quartet of 16th notes rhythmically now becomes more difficult.

    Surely one's not going to hold the 3rd finger in position as long as the 1st or 2nd finger, but just enough to have the thumb either on or very near the position of the right note; Treat it like a pivot without rotation to stabilize the hand in position to transition the 3rd finger to the thumb. This all happens very fast and what I am saying is in super slow-motion.

    Every millimeter in motion will make a difference, and I believe the secret lies in the pulling the thumb under the fingers as much as possible toward the intended note without disrupting the transition between the notes both dynamically and rhythmically.
     
  8. keyboarclass

    keyboarclass New Member

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    That seems fair enough. According to Mikuli 'evenness of scales (arpeggios)...above all on a constant sideways movement of the hands...continuous and even-flowing rather than in steps,'
     
  9. Terez

    Terez New Member

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    Listen to 88man - he plays arpeggios beautifully. :lol: As is evidenced by his recording of this waltz.

    Edited because I gave the wrong link. :oops:
     
  10. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Huh :?
    So that's where you hang around :p
     
  11. Terez

    Terez New Member

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    lol, wat? I just listened to George's Chopin (cause you know I hardly listen to anything else but Bach) for the first time about a week ago when he introduced himself to me. Because you never quite know a pianist until you hear them play. :lol:
     
  12. BrokenFingers

    BrokenFingers New Member

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    I found this "Mat throwing dice with blood streaming down his face, the wide brim of his hat pulled low so she could not see his wound, while Thom Merrilin put his hand into a fire to draw out the small blue stone that now dangled on Moiraine's forehead."

    But... no waltz. x D
     
  13. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist

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    Haha indeed, no waltzes to be found there :p
     
  14. Terez

    Terez New Member

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    ahhh, wrong link. :D I will fix it. Not that I'm really hiding at Theoryland; I even got Nathan to join, not that he posted much. He named his kids after WoT characters (the littlest is named Moiraine, I do believe). :wink: I think we had a conversation about it on the General forum once.
     
  15. BrokenFingers

    BrokenFingers New Member

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    :shock:

    Wonderful recording of that waltz, it makes me want to go practice mine a LOT more. I know you're supposed to play the first arpeggio slowly, and then the following two very quickly(I think it's the difference between triplets and 16ths?), but his hand teleported up 2 octaves or something.

    Err, yeah. Listen to 88man on the arpeggio thing :p
     
  16. Terez

    Terez New Member

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    :lol: Nice description. But this is something Chopin likes to do - he writes a run or an arpeggio that is played in tempo, but comes across as if there is an accelerando. George does it very nicely, but it is written to feel very natural to the hand with the right approach (relaxation as opposed to tension, or the typical OH NO IT'S A FIDDLY BIT thing that pops up even in the easiest Chopin pieces). The difference between 3 to the beat and 5 to the beat is subtle in this context but perceptible. And with the rubato, it need not be overly precise; in fact, it should not be.
     
  17. 88man

    88man Member Piano Society Artist

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    Thank you Terez, Brokenfingers, Chris, and Keyboarclass for a good discussion and kind praises, and even a undeserved reference to Star Trek. Perhaps, the simplicity of the waltz had an unusual flavor given my nostalgic intentions, but it's not like I am playing Chopin Etudes these days... :wink:

    Piano21, let us know if you succeed with your arpeggios...
     
  18. BrokenFingers

    BrokenFingers New Member

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    Reference to Star Trek? I hope you don't mean my 'teleported' bit.

    Thanks Terez. I'm constantly reminded how knowledgeable the members of this community are. I like it here :D
     
  19. Chopaninoff

    Chopaninoff New Member

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    Piano21,
    Technique is not something that is achieved overnight. I suggest playing B major, D flat major, F sharp Major, and A flat Major arpeggios to begin with, and then start with the white keys. Time is an important element in piano. Time, Patience, and hard work can ensure success. As for practice, I know it can be very boring just playing the arpeggios over and over again. I suggest playing Prokofiev's etude in C major known as "The Harp" prelude. This of course is not an any piece, but isint exactly his 2nd piano concerto cadenza either. This prelude focuses on arpeggios mostly in the right hand and some in the left hand. It has beautiful harmonies and at the same time very beneficial. Here is the link to the scores http://imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/c ... piano_.pdf It is the 7th piece titled Prelude
    Hope I was able to help.
     
  20. Piano21

    Piano21 New Member

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    Thanks for the tips...
    it's really helped me..... :wink:
     

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