Thank you to those who donated to Piano Society in 2017.

A little bit of Beethoven and Mozart

Discussion in 'Submission Room' started by supitalp, Dec 29, 2009.

  1. supitalp

    supitalp New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    0
  2. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    Messages:
    9,927
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Last Name:
    Breemer
    First Name:
    Chris
    Hi Henri, and welcome to PS.

    Nice performances, especially the Mozart which is appropriately jaunty and bouncy. The Beethoven
    convinces me less, it is well played but a little flat, and marred by strange jazzy accents where one would not expect them. The digital sound is not very appealing to start, but one gets used to it.

    If you wish to be a pianist on the site, can you submit one more recording, preferably of contrasting repertoire ? Either more early (baroque) or later (romantic/impressionistic/...).
     
  3. supitalp

    supitalp New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thank you for your feedback :)
    Yes the Beethoven sounds a bit flat though I really tried to put heart in it. How did you guess I play jazz too ? :shock:

    I'll probably try to submit the Italian Concerto by Bach when I find enough time to record it without mistakes (has someone recorded it yet ? couldn't find it in the Bach section). Or maybe a waltz or a nocturne by Chopin.

    P.S : sorry for my awkward English (it's not my mother language).
     
  4. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    Messages:
    9,927
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Last Name:
    Breemer
    First Name:
    Chris
    Haha, it's the kind of of-beat accents you find only in jazz, or in jazz-inspired classical music like Gershwin or Kapustin.

    Yes we have a couple of recordings of this (it's under Clavier Ubung II) but that should not deter you if you think you can contribute a good alternative recording (getting rid of mistakes is only the first step really).

    No problem with it, you're doing fine.
     
  5. juufa72

    juufa72 New Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,387
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Obamanation, unfortunately...
    Last Name:
    Grocholski
    First Name:
    Julius
    Because when it comes to piano music and playing the piano, Techneut knows :!:
     
  6. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2006
    Messages:
    8,710
    Likes Received:
    1
    Last Name:
    Hart
    First Name:
    Monica
    Hello Henri and welcome!

    I also think your Mozart was nice. The Beethoven is all right, but I don't really like those accented notes either. They kind of jar the listener - take a bit of the beauty away from the piece. And then sometimes I wanted to hear more on the top but then it was too soft. Maybe it's hard to control that sort of thing on a digital? As to your interpretation, I think your tempo was fine except for when you slowed down a lot at bar 22. That could be just 'artistic license' though, so that's ok. But at bar 66 you have a little wrong rhythm - the last LH triplet - you added a note - probably to match it up with the RH - this should remain a triplet though. And I feel that you should make of the rests in bars 69, 70, and 71.

    Since you just recently recorded this piece, then it should still be in your fingers. Any chance you can re-record it taking into consideration the things we mentioned?
     
  7. supitalp

    supitalp New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi there,
    here is my second try for Beethoven sonata. I've tried to take your comments into account, even if I didn't understand precisely where are the jazzy accents which spoil the piece...
    Hope you'll enjoy !

    Henri

    P.S : if this ok if I record Waltz in G flat major Op.70 No.1 by Chopin ? (there are only two recordings online)
     
  8. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2006
    Messages:
    8,710
    Likes Received:
    1
    Last Name:
    Hart
    First Name:
    Monica
    Hello again. Well, you got rid of the accented notes, which is good. Though there are still times when the melody note in the RH is not strong enough. And you still have the rhythm incorrect at bar 66. One more thing - there is now a static noise in the recording. Do you hear it? I don't think it is only my speakers.

    And yes - it's okay to record the Chopin. But be warned - we can sometimes get a little nitpicky.
     
  9. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    Messages:
    9,927
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Last Name:
    Breemer
    First Name:
    Chris
    Yes that is better, no more jazzy accents. It worries me that you did not not know where they were. Seems like playing jazz may create a subconscious habit of placing marked accents - if so, something to watch out for ! But ok, you got rid of them.

    Now, this is a decent recording but there would be plenty to suggest in terms of dynamics, touch, phrasing, etc. Do you take lessons ? If so, have your techer comment on this.

    There's this heavy hiss as Monica already noted. I could swear I was listening to a vinyl LP ! Especially the way it abruptly cuts off at the end (you should always leave some seconds there).

    A Chopin piece would be fine for a 3rd submission. Expect some very critical feedback there, Bach and Chopin being the pet composers around here.
     
  10. juufa72

    juufa72 New Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,387
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Obamanation, unfortunately...
    Last Name:
    Grocholski
    First Name:
    Julius
    I'd like to think about it this way: that all of you are slaves to their music
     
  11. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    Messages:
    9,927
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Last Name:
    Breemer
    First Name:
    Chris
    Sure, juuf, that we are.
    Now you go and practice your Thalberg :p
     
  12. supitalp

    supitalp New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi,
    seems I underestimated the difficulty of making a good record !
    I feel that I'm loosing the Beethoven so I think it's wiser to wait a few days before trying to record it again.
    However I've worked on it, trying to concentrate on the dynamics (techneut : unfortunately I don't have a teacher anymore cause my studies take me most of my time).
    And I've also corrected the wrong rhythm at bar 66 (thank you for telling me, pianolady). I shall post a new recording by the end of the week, without the static noise hopefully !
    Finally, I'm working on the Chopin, so I hope I'll be able to post a recording tomorrow (or sooner).

    Again, I'd like to thank you all for your relevant feedback and support !

    Henri
     
  13. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2006
    Messages:
    8,710
    Likes Received:
    1
    Last Name:
    Hart
    First Name:
    Monica

    We may be able to give you some guidance if you tell us your recording setup.
     
  14. supitalp

    supitalp New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    0
    Haha, it's not only the technical part which is difficult :) But I'd be glad to listen to your advice if you have some !

    I record on a Roland FP7, which I connect directly to my sound card. I use Audacity to capture the sound. I set it on mono recording and I use the option "Reduce noise" and apply Gverb with soft settings at the end. Please ask me if you'd like further details.

    At last I managed to produce something which I am not ashamed of for the Chopin ! Of course, there is plenty of room for improvement but the overall result is not terrible I guess.

    Henri
     
  15. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2006
    Messages:
    8,710
    Likes Received:
    1
    Last Name:
    Hart
    First Name:
    Monica
    Your setup is different than mine because you use a digital piano, so I'm not much help afterall - sorry.

    As to your Chopin here - The sound is better, but I hate to tell you - your rhythm is wrong again. It's all the RH triplets. You hold the first note too long. If you say the word trip-o-let, all syllables getting equal time, then the rhythm comes out correctly.
     
  16. supitalp

    supitalp New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    0
    Oh yeah I know it is not a conventional rhythm, but this is the way Zoltan Kocsis plays it, and I find this "arrangement" much more dynamic and interesting since this is a waltz. Do you think this can be taken as part of the interpretation ?
     
  17. pianolady

    pianolady Monica Hart, Administrator Staff Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2006
    Messages:
    8,710
    Likes Received:
    1
    Last Name:
    Hart
    First Name:
    Monica
    I don't share your feelings about it played this way. For one thing - to me, it sort of stops the action, the line of the music. (I can't really explain it.) Another thing - Chopin wrote triplets so they should be played as such - never mind interpretation.

    Regarding if the recording is acceptable for the site - I'm not sure. Let's see if we get any more comments regarding this.
     
  18. alf

    alf Active Member Piano Society Artist

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2007
    Messages:
    1,168
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Piemonte, Italy
    Last Name:
    Bertazzi
    First Name:
    Alfonso
    Supitalp, I'm afraid Pianolady is right about the triplets, you play them as 1/8 + 1/16 + 1/16. What Kocsis does is not playing the triplets as you do, but playing a dot rhythm before the jumps in the RH, since he seemingly used the 1832 autograph version of this valse, and not the 1835 one posthumously published by Fontana (which is also the most commonly played).
     
  19. supitalp

    supitalp New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    0
    Right, it seems I must admit defeat :(
    I'll have another try soon.
    Thank you again for your comments, that's what makes me improve my play(ing?) !
     
  20. techneut

    techneut Active Member Piano Society Artist Trusted Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    Messages:
    9,927
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Last Name:
    Breemer
    First Name:
    Chris
    Yes the rhythm is strange indeed. If Kocsis is mauling the piece like this, shame on him... One can't take such liberties with the score (unless perhaps you make it inso something really new). Apart from that, this is mostly well played.

    Well Henri, you've seen the nitpickers in action already :wink:
     

Share This Page