Piano Society
Free Classical Keyboard Recordings
It is currently Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:13 am

All times are UTC - 1 hour




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 67 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Moments musicaux, No. 2 in A flat major, Andantino
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:01 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9638
Location: Netherlands
I'm not sure this is better than the existing version. This new one seems more rhythmically distorted, with tempi fluctuating wildly and bars made longer or shorter for no apparent reason. Have you ever tried playing this with a metronome, if only to get a feel of how long the notes should be ? Alternatively, listening back whilst tapping out all the nine eights in a bar ? I believe that one should be able to first play in strict time before applying rubato. Both
versions suffer equally from inaudible/missing notes in the RH chords.

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Moments musicaux, No. 2 in A flat major, Andantino
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:53 pm
Posts: 471
Location: France
Hi Chris,

I am really sure that it is better, especially rhythmically. For instance, the pattern dotted quarter - eighth - quarter - long, which is much present this piece, is much better as shown by the attached clip 1 where I have juxtaposed the first two bars from the old version, the new one and the recording by Koroliov for Tacet.
In my first version, the quarter is too short with respect to the eighth.

The attached clip 2 shows an instability at the beginning of the second theme in the old version, which has disappeared in the new one.

Did you note also that I maintain the tempo in the f passage while there is a rush in the old version where the eighth chords are replaced by quarter chords ?


Last edited by Didier on Sat Dec 14, 2013 3:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Moments musicaux, No. 2 in A flat major, Andantino
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 3:08 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9638
Location: Netherlands
Yes these dotted figures are better now, at least most or many or them. However I found the rhythm and tempo distortions here far more worrying than in the previous. There is just no pules to it. Please do me that favor, try play it once with a metronome. Forget about interpretation and feeling, just focus on keeping in sync with it. It will be tedious and confronting but I believe you need to go through this torture before you can get a piece right. Any teacher
would tell you the same.
Also, I would not replace the existing recording until you also make all of the RH notes audible.

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Moments musicaux, No. 2 in A flat major, Andantino
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:53 pm
Posts: 471
Location: France
For this second version, I paid more attention to make sound all the notes in the choral parts.

Quote:
There is just no pules to it.


I do not understand what this means. Perhaps that it is too slow ? I agree that my 7'10" performance is on the slow side, but only 15" longer than Koroliov, within a few seconds on par with Arrau in 1956 or Uchida, and much faster than Feltsman (8'37").


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Moments musicaux, No. 2 in A flat major, Andantino
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:02 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9638
Location: Netherlands
Haha pules, I meant pulse :)
No I don't mind it being slow. That's an interpretational choice. What I was trying to say that it is very irregular, as if Schubert had written bars of different meter and indicated different tempi, both of which he did not. But you have listened to a number of performances which I haven't. If these fine pianists do something similar then you are excused. Still seems to me you are studiously avoiding the metronome though :)

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Moments musicaux, No. 2 in A flat major, Andantino
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 2:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:53 pm
Posts: 471
Location: France
techneut wrote:
Still seems to me you are studiously avoiding the metronome though :)


Not at all. Please, could you listen to the attached recording ? Does it sound so different from what I am submitting ? :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Moments musicaux, No. 2 in A flat major, Andantino
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 2:53 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9638
Location: Netherlands
Sounds a lot better actually :D But you still need to count... You play bar 5 as if it were a 12/8 bar, and in the last but one bar you drop a beat. Some of the dotted figures near are awkwardly rushed, the last note played as if it were a sixteenth. Can your metronome count groups, i.e. give a stronger tick on every first beat ?

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Moments musicaux, No. 2 in A flat major, Andantino
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:40 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9638
Location: Netherlands
Didier wrote:
For this second version, I paid more attention to make sound all the notes in the choral parts.

I don't seem to hear much difference. Maybe my ears are on the way out, and you play them so delicately that I just can't hear them.
The rhythmic distortions are the same always, I don't think you are going to improve here, or else this is maybe just your style and/or the way you want it to sound. I would not bother with it if you didn't play so beautifully otherwise. I believe you invest a lot, and successfully, in a beautiful tone, but you seem take your rhythm and tempi just as they comes. Perhaps you don't want to be in control of that, I don't know.

I guess you want to replace your recording on the site with the latest one and leave it at that for the time being ? I don't want to get into regularly replacing recordings with only marginal improvemnts.

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Moments musicaux, No. 2 in A flat major, Andantino
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:53 pm
Posts: 471
Location: France
techneut wrote:
You play bar 5 as if it were a 12/8 bar, and in the last but one bar you drop a beat.

Sorry, it is a reading mistake that I have been doing for a long time...
Quote:
in the last but one bar you drop a beat

I detected this recurrent error during my work and corrected it. It came back during the recording sessions. There is the same error in the last exposition of this theme in my recording.

Quote:
I guess you want to replace your recording on the site with the latest one and leave it at that for the time being ?

Thank you for your proposal. I am correcting the above errors first. :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Moments musicaux, No. 2 in A flat major, Andantino
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:57 am
Posts: 320
Location: New York City
Hello Dider,

That was a beautiful performance and range of expression.

-Kaila

_________________
musicrecovery


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Moments musicaux, No. 2 in A flat major, Andantino
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:52 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9638
Location: Netherlands
Didier wrote:
Thank you for your proposal. I am correcting the above errors first. :D
If you've recorded a new version, do me a favor and listen back to it, tapping along, making sure you have all the note (and rest!) values right and you don't wildly fluctuate the tempi. I believe such errors are just as disturbing as wrong notes, maybe more. I also believe that it's possible to play with expression AND get the rhythms right AND not sound like a metronome :wink:

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Moments musicaux, No. 2 in A flat major, Andantino
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:00 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:53 pm
Posts: 471
Location: France
Thank you Kaila for your kind words ! :D

Chris, I do not intend to record a new full version that might be not as good as (or worse than) this one. :wink:
I want just to re-record some passages for editing this one: bars 5, 15-16 and 80-81 as mentioned above, and also 42. Except for bar 5, these rhythm issues are also in my recording on PS site.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Moments musicaux, No. 2 in A flat major, Andantino
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:24 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9638
Location: Netherlands
Didier wrote:
Chris, I do not intend to record a new full version that might be not as good as (or worse than) this one. :wink:
Hm... you should aspire to get better with each recording.

Didier wrote:
I want just to re-record some passages for editing this one: bars 5, 15-16 and 80-81 as mentioned above, and also 42.
That's ok, as long as the edits cannot be heard.

Didier wrote:
Except for bar 5, these rhythm issues are also in my recording on PS site.
Yes probably. No reason not to fix them though. A new recording should be significantly better the the old one. Or we should say the quality standards for a rerecording are higher.

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Moments musicaux, No. 2 in A flat major, Andantino
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:53 pm
Posts: 471
Location: France
Hi all,

my last attempt ... For 2013. :D

Schubert - Op.94 D780, Moments musicaux, 2. Andantino (7:27)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Moments musicaux, No. 2 in A flat major, Andantino
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:45 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9638
Location: Netherlands
This must be the most often re-recorded piece in PS history by now :) Or maybe that honour goes to your previous Schubert recording.

I think this one has improved on points - though it is hard to keep up with all the versions. It is still far from ideal rhythm-wise but nonetheless has much to commend it, and I believe this is good enough for the site.

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Moments musicaux, No. 2 in A flat major, Andantino
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:53 pm
Posts: 471
Location: France
Thank you Chris ! :D
I will do still better on next time ! :P
But likely not before some years. My previous version was recorded more than 4 years ago. :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Moments musicaux, No. 2 in A flat major, Andantino
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:05 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9638
Location: Netherlands
Ok, this one is replaced.
Didier wrote:
I will do still better on next time ! :P
But likely not before some years. My previous version was recorded more than 4 years ago. :wink:

I agree. Please, no more for now ;-)

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 67 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group