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 Post subject: Kinderszenen
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:44 pm 
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Location: Uppsala, Sweden
No introduction needed here. Some music is famous for a reason.

Comments welcome, also on the sound. This recording is unprocessed, should I add reverb? More bass?

I post as a single file because it will be easier to download and listen to, it is intended as a whole. If admins want I'll chop it up. In any case I'll adjust tags.



Schumann - Von fremden Ländern und Menschen
Schumann - Kuriose Geschichte
Schumann - Hasche-Mann
Schumann - Bittendes Kind
Schumann - Glückes genug
Schumann - Wichtige Begebenheit
Schumann - Träumerei
Schumann - Am Kamin
Schumann - Ritter vom Steckenpferd
Schumann - Fast zu ernst
Schumann - Fürchtenmachen
Schumann - Kind im Einschlummern
Schumann - Der Dichter spricht


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 Post subject: Re: Kinderszenen
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:38 pm 
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You have a point about posting a single file. It would be great if people could listen to a complete set with just one click. However, we have discussed this before, and decided to stick to separate tracks. So, please re-submit accordingly. Please look at the existing sets on the site (mine, specifically) for how to name and tag them.

Back then I briefly looked into using indexed mp3's, which IMO is the way to go. But I could not get it to work and gave up soon :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: Kinderszenen
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:42 pm 
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Well, I have hurried up and dowloaded it while it is still one file. Downloading 13 files or whatever is a nuisance and I am glad I am not alone here.

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 Post subject: Re: Kinderszenen
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:10 am 
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Location: Uppsala, Sweden
techneut wrote:
However, we have discussed this before, and decided to stick to separate tracks. So, please re-submit accordingly. Please look at the existing sets on the site (mine, specifically) for how to name and tag them.


Will do - your site, your rules. It will be some days before I have time though, hope that is OK.

Joachim


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 Post subject: Re: Kinderszenen
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:27 am 
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I spent half an hour downloading this, it got to 86% then it lost connection and I had to start all over! ....that is one reason for smaller files.


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 Post subject: Re: Kinderszenen
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:11 am 
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troglodyte wrote:
Will do - your site, your rules.

It's not my site, I jut work here :)
These rules have evolved and been agreed upon.

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 Post subject: Re: Kinderszenen
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:02 am 
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hreichgott wrote:
I spent half an hour downloading this, it got to 86% then it lost connection and I had to start all over! ....that is one reason for smaller files.


Interestimg that. I did it in under 10 seconds in the evening, when the connection is particularly slow (I also dowloaded your Schumann at the same time, which I hope to listen to anon) and I use a flash card or whatever it is is called to access the Internet, so if anuthing I have a narrowband!

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 Post subject: Re: Kinderszenen
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:16 pm 
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Joachim, please hold off on reformatting FTTB. Let's review these first. It seems to me that at least one item needs a re-recording. I'll be back with more detail about them later (hopefully some others will chip in too).

Soundwise these are ok but a bit boxy restricted. They could certainly do (IMO) with some discreet reverb. Performancewise you seem rather hurried and vehement at times. No need to molly-cuddle these pieces but they should always remain gentle.

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 Post subject: Re: Kinderszenen
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:06 pm 
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OK, some people find it easier to access these piecemeal so I put them up one by one. (Not as difficult as I thought, using "export selection" in audacity). I'll fix names and tags in case it comes to that.

This is the same takes as in the OP, with one exception. No 3 I intend to be far from gentle and even conveying a sense of out-of control (perhaps I had a troubled childhood) but listening to it again I find it a bit too far out of control, so the take included here is toned down a bit.


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 Post subject: Re: Kinderszenen
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:29 pm 
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Hi Joachim, I'm at work now, so I can't check your tags. But I can see that the file names are incorrect. They should be:

schumann-15-1-parrow.mp3

note lower cases.

While you are at changing these, (I can't see your titles), but the title should be like this:

Schumann - Kinderszenen Op. 15, no. 3 "Traumerei"


Please see the tag/naming instructions at the top of this forum for more help.

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 Post subject: Re: Kinderszenen
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:08 pm 
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I'll need to listen top these again. There was at least one I thought needed re-recording, probably the one you redid already.

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 Post subject: Re: Kinderszenen
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:16 am 
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Location: Sankt Augustin, Germany
Hi Joachim,

Thank you for recording and submitting these. "Kinderszenen" is one of my favourite compositions for the piano by Schumann and, in fact, it is quite demanding music.

I have listened to the single file recording, btw.

Generally, this is in my opinion a solid performance. Well done.

As I don't have much time at the moment, I can't make any detailed comments. Just three quick remarks.

On the whole I would agree with Chris, though, that it all sounds a bit hurried. Some pieces even sound quite aggressive to me, which doesn't really reflect the notion of childhood in the romatic age.

I think there is maybe a bit too much rubato in "Von fremden Ländern und Menschen" and the bass should be given more weight in the second part of it.

Regarding "Am Kamin", I have to say that to me the atmosphere of this piece doesn't really come across. The melody should me more 'cantabile' and gentle IMO.

Anyway, thanks again for sharing this.

Daniel


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 Post subject: Re: Kinderszenen
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:44 pm 
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Hi again, Joachim. I just listened to these. Although there are some places that are a little more aggressive than what one usually hears, I found your playing and interpretation here refreshing. I really liked your fast finger work in no. 3! Well done on the whole set. I await your fixed file names/tags, as it will take me a long time to put these up so anything you can correct beforehand will be greatly appreciated! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Kinderszenen
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:58 pm 
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Ok, I guess it was no.3 that I had gripes about and seems like you have redone it and it's now ok (or else Monica would have complained). That some items sound rather (too) brisk and business-like is personal taste.

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 Post subject: Re: Kinderszenen
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:34 pm 
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Thanks all! Yes, I wanted to bring a bit of personal interpretation into this. Schumann states in his letters that these are remembrances of his childhood and not the standard cosy depiction of children. So I draw on mine, to make the games at the fireside a bit more energetic, and the hobby-horse ride to have some element of danger of falling off.

I'll redo tags etc and see if I can improve the sound with some small reverb (any hints appreciated!) in a few days.

Joachim


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 Post subject: Re: Kinderszenen
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 3:40 pm 
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Here are the files hopefully correctly named and tagged. In the end I added no reverb. I agree the sound is a bit boxy but at least it is reasonably clear, and however I add reverb it becomes muddied with a kind of swimming sound, in particular after the mp3 conversion. Unless it is a kind of trade secret it would be great if those more accomplished than me would share the audacity settings or other tricks in this respect.

Joachim

Schumann - Von fremden Ländern und Menschen
Schumann - Kuriose Geschichte
Schumann - Hasche-Mann
Schumann - Bittendes Kind
Schumann - Glückes genug
Schumann - Wichtige Begebenheit
Schumann - Träumerei
Schumann - Am Kamin
Schumann - Ritter vom Steckenpferd
Schumann - Fast zu ernst
Schumann - Fürchtenmachen
Schumann - Kind im Einschlummern
Schumann - Der Dichter spricht


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 Post subject: Re: Kinderszenen
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:12 pm 
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Ok, I will try to have these up sometime tomorrow. The tags are mostly fine. You forgot to make the genre "classical". But that's okay I can easily add that for you.

Regarding reverb: I don't use Audacity, but I add my reverb to the wav file and then convert to mp3. I also change the decay time depending on the piece. I always first save a 'raw' wav file just in case I mess around with settings too much and the sound gets weird. Then I can always try again.

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my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


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 Post subject: Re: Kinderszenen
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:34 pm 
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I use CoolEdit (a very old copy but it still works fine for me) with Concert Hall Light reverb. I've always liked this and used it consistently without changing the parameters. The params are shown in attached screenshot. Hope it's useful.


Attachments:
reverb.jpg
reverb.jpg [ 31.73 KiB | Viewed 1675 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Kinderszenen
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:07 pm 
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Thanks Chris for your last post. I use Audacity myself, and as of the last release, they changed the reverb feature. I did not have time for much experimentation before my last set of recordings, so I used it sparingly.
Anyway, when I saw your graphic, I was envious of the presets. Then I looked at Audacity again and saw their preset button! I don't know how I missed it before, except that I was flustered when I updated the software and found myself having to learn a new feature.

Also, just a reminder to Joachim and other Audacity users, that version 2.0.4 has a new reverb engine which has some presets. Pre-2.0.4 is a third-party and finding some settings is a little more difficult, although there are suggestions on these message boards somewhere.

Joachim, I thought the recordings are fine, but probably the slower pieces (Traumerei, for instance) could use a little reverb. With most engines, the most subtle settings are usually those beginning with "Small Room" or "Medium Room".

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 Post subject: Re: Kinderszenen
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:11 pm 
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I've tried out all of the presets shown here but there's only one I really like. Occasionally I have used Large Occupied Hall for some organ recordings of big pieces. Would be interesting if using the same(ish) parameters in Audacity would yield the same result.

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 Post subject: Re: Kinderszenen
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:48 pm 
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Ok, Joachim, these are up. Please check all links and confirm that they work. Also, you should have a pretty table like the others on the page, but I am having trouble making one, so please ask Chris.

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my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


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 Post subject: Re: Kinderszenen
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:05 pm 
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I'll do that tonight.

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 Post subject: Re: Kinderszenen
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:35 pm 
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pianolady wrote:
Also, you should have a pretty table like the others on the page, but I am having trouble making one, so please ask Chris.

I've done it even without having been asked. You need me to resend that video I created about this ?

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 Post subject: Re: Kinderszenen
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:52 pm 
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Hi Joachim I sampled your recordings and enjoyed them. I agree it is a very difficult set to play well. I am amazed at how much different these pieces can sound with your phrasing, or tempo. I did get the feeling that the rocking horse was a ride at a haunted house. I heard that Schumann injured his finger, possibly (and ironically)because he made finger contraption that would make him a better pianist. Don't know if he injured it in childhood, but if so wouldn't that be a shame as a composer probably relies on hand so much regularly.

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 Post subject: Re: Kinderszenen
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:46 pm 
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Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Thanks all of you!

Perhaps coolEdit is the way to go but it seems it has been bought by Adobe and now sits behind a subscription wall. A pity.

pianolady wrote:
Please check all links and confirm that they work. Also, you should have a pretty table

Thanks! The links seem to work, and yes, there is a table!
techneut wrote:
I've done it even without having been asked.

Thanks!
pianoman342 wrote:
I am amazed at how much different these pieces can sound with your phrasing, or tempo. I did get the feeling that the rocking horse was a ride at a haunted house.

Yes, these are so well known that a different perspective could be interesting - it need not sound the same always! Though a haunted house is a bit much. Perhaps I overdid it there.


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