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 Post subject: Albeniz and Telemann
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 2:25 am 
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Here are two happy little tunes: Albeniz' "Cadiz" from Suite Espanola, and Telemann's Suite in A Major "Gigue" which comes from the book for Wilhelm Friedemann Bach. They are completely different styles, but I like the sound of them and also they are not terribly difficult, so the practicing was fun.

Albeniz - Suite Espanola no. 4 "Cadiz"

Telemann - Suite in A Major, no. 3 "Gigue"

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 Post subject: Re: Albeniz and Telemann
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 4:29 pm 
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Monica,
The Albeniz is simply wonderful, both the piece and your rendition.

I was shocked to see just how little Telemann we have, so it's a good thing that you did this one. Hmmm.

Very fun recording - bouncy and playful. If you practiced this a lot more it's possible that the ornaments would be perfectly consistent, but it's not worth it, IMHO - there were only a couple of places and I'm mentioning it only because we're supposed to give each other intelligent comments, etc. Far more important to try to get another Telemann up on the site!
(By consistency, I mean that similar ornaments would all be on the beat or before. I'm as guilty as the next person on this count so I'm just speaking from painful experience. I usually don't find it all that important, but some of my professors sure did.)

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 Post subject: Re: Albeniz and Telemann
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 5:14 pm 
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StuKautsch wrote:
Monica,
The Albeniz is simply wonderful, both the piece and your rendition.

I was shocked to see just how little Telemann we have, so it's a good thing that you did this one. Hmmm.

Very fun recording - bouncy and playful. If you practiced this a lot more it's possible that the ornaments would be perfectly consistent, but it's not worth it, IMHO - there were only a couple of places and I'm mentioning it only because we're supposed to give each other intelligent comments, etc. Far more important to try to get another Telemann up on the site!
(By consistency, I mean that similar ornaments would all be on the beat or before. I'm as guilty as the next person on this count so I'm just speaking from painful experience. I usually don't find it all that important, but some of my professors sure did.)


Oh, thank you, Stu. I'm so grateful. I don't have very much experience playing Baroque music -- I was hoping for some help. I'm never sure about things like ornaments. Do you think that all the grace notes should come before the beat or on the beat? What would sound better or more appropriate for the style?

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 Post subject: Re: Albeniz and Telemann
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 8:51 pm 
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Quote:
Monica wrote:
Do you think that all the grace notes should come before the beat or on the beat? What would sound better or more appropriate for the style?


I studied this stuff 35 years ago and can't remember about the "should". It sounds best to me when you do the turns on the beat. Myself, I just try to make them sound the way I've heard other people play them and try to get some consistency.

Hopefully Chris will chime in - I know he plays a lot of baroque. Also, where's rainer been?

I can see in the "preview" that my "quote" is messed up. Someday I'll learn the mysteries of this editor.

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 Post subject: Re: Albeniz and Telemann
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 1:42 am 
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Chris won't, I don't know why. And I don't know where Rainer is. :? But I think you are right about the ornaments coming down on the beat. Thanks again for catching that. I would never have thought of it. I'll practice the piece a bit more and try again soon.

Also, your quote above this post looks fine to me! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Albeniz and Telemann
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 3:52 pm 
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Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Did someone mention my name?
Sorry, I've been spending my time elsewhere for a bit, and I don't think I'm the only one. This place has been unusually quiet of late.

Both these pieces are lovely and nicely played. What particularly appeals to me in the Albeniz are the occasional pull-backs, some subtle, others a bit more overt.

As far as the Telemann ornaments go, I gather common view favours the idea that baroque ornaments should generally be on the beat, and indeed it seems that that's where you're putting them most of the time. However, I think it's as well to be guided by intuition here, and not be too dogmatic about it.

I think what Stu means about the quotes is that he has had to put "Monica wrote:" into the white box of the quoted text, instead of getting it to appear in the shaded strip above it.


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 Post subject: Re: Albeniz and Telemann
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 6:28 pm 
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rainer wrote:
Did someone mention my name?
Sorry, I've been spending my time elsewhere for a bit, and I don't think I'm the only one. This place has been unusually quiet of late.

I'm glad you're here....thank you for listening! Yes, it has been very quiet. It saddens me; I feel like I'm the only one here lately. It's not fair or nice. Maybe I should just go silent for a while too....except I still enjoy playing piano, and practicing/sharing/recording music keeps me motivated to continue learning new music. I guess I could just stick with Youtube and Facebook though... Does anyone have any ideas how we can get people to participate here more?


rainer wrote:
As far as the Telemann ornaments go, I gather common view favours the idea that baroque ornaments should generally be on the beat, and indeed it seems that that's where you're putting them most of the time. However, I think it's as well to be guided by intuition here, and not be too dogmatic about it.

Yes, I listened back to my recording and I think that most of them are on the beat, but a couple are a little iffy. It helps that my attention has been drawn to this so I can check myself on my re-recording (which will probably be tonight since I'll have the house to myself).

rainer wrote:
I think what Stu means about the quotes is that he has had to put "Monica wrote:" into the white box of the quoted text, instead of getting it to appear in the shaded strip above it.

Oh, now I see what you mean. Sorry you're having trouble, Stu...

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my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
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 Post subject: Re: Albeniz and Telemann
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 9:23 pm 
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rainer wrote:
I think what Stu means about the quotes is that he has had to put "Monica wrote:" into the white box of the quoted text, instead of getting it to appear in the shaded strip above it.


AHA! I see how it's done - either by pushing the little "Quote" button at the end of an entry or just inserting the tag [quote="whoever"] by hand.

Soon I will enter the 21st century. I hope it's a nice place.

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 Post subject: Re: Albeniz and Telemann
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 11:52 pm 
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Location: Uppsala, Sweden
I liked both and particularly the Telemann. Excellent control of dynamics and perfect tone in in the softer parts, and nicely brought out in tempo. Not being an expert on that music I was not bothered by the ornaments at all.

By the way, why do you say Chris won't comment? Has something happened?

Joachim


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 Post subject: Re: Albeniz and Telemann
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 2:41 pm 
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Thank you, Joachim. I'm glad you liked the dynamics in the Telemann. There are no markings whatsoever in the score, so I just went with my own ideas.

No, nothing has happened. It's just that he is not listening/participating anymore, and so it is just me here. It's not fair. I'm so unhappy... :(

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 Post subject: Re: Albeniz and Telemann
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 7:45 pm 
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pianolady wrote:
No, nothing has happened. It's just that he is not listening/participating anymore

Do give me a break, I've been having other priorities lately. And we don't always comment on each others' submissions anyway.
I've not kept up with new postings recently, and was only triggered because I got an email about a topic I was subscribed to.

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 Post subject: Re: Albeniz and Telemann
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 10:12 pm 
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Hi Monica,

I had a listen to your two recordings. I like the Albeniz a lot and I found it very much in the "spanish" style as it were. I was just listening to Albeniz yesterday, the guitar Granada from his Suite Espanola. There are some rich chords here that make this a very romantic tribute to Cadiz (apparently the oldest continuosly inhabited city in spain :wink: )

I didn't really like the Gigue. Not because the way you played it, I think you play it fine, I just didn't like the piece. I don't listen to much Telleman (and maybe Bach is to blame, they are certainly from the same period!)

How to boost audition room participation? Hmm. That's a good question. Perhaps put "members are encouraged to participate" next to the bold print on the outer directory?

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 Post subject: Re: Albeniz and Telemann
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 4:10 am 
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Hi Riley, and welcome home!!!!
Thank you. Granada is nice; I've played it too. It's nice to play Spanish music that's not so hard!
It's perfectly fine that you don't like the Telemann. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Albeniz and Telemann
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 6:15 am 
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Hi Monica,

I listened to the Albeniz and really enjoyed the piece and your playing. It has a joie de vivre feel to it. Very charming and upbeat!

David

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 Post subject: Re: Albeniz and Telemann
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 1:57 am 
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Hi David,
I'm glad you liked the Albeniz! Thank you!! :)

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my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
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 Post subject: Re: Albeniz and Telemann
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 2:11 am 
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Both of these pieces are very well played. I especially liked your dynamics in the Albeniz and your articulation in the Telemann.

Samuel


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 Post subject: Re: Albeniz and Telemann
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 4:20 pm 
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Hi Samuel. Thank you! Good to see you again!! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Albeniz and Telemann
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 7:51 pm 
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@InFlightPiano : Nice to see someone dropping in again after a long absence.

The Albeniz is well done. Couple of things I noticed - they could be edition-specific (mine is Schott)

1) Three fermata not or hardly observed
2) At 2:15, the F-sharp is not played
3) The closing chord seems to miss the top f.

Not much to criticize except that the piece could yet do (IMO) with a little more freedom and dynamic variation.

I'm less keen on the Telemann, it sounds a bit laboured and rhythmically insecure. The terraced dynamics are well realized. Indeed the trills should typically be on the note (though it depends on the situation). It is customary to add some variation in the repeats, usually by different/more ornamentation but other devices can work well too.

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 Post subject: Re: Albeniz and Telemann
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 3:12 am 
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:shock: Oh, I am surprised! :shock: Thank you for listening, Chris.

Those fermatas--I just don't think they are supposed to be there. They don't make sense, so I ignored them.
The closing chord--I intentionally brought out the middle note, the d-flat, instead of the top f. I think the ending sounds better this way. Doesn't it?
F-sharp at 2:15? Sorry, but I'm not following...I don't see any f-sharp there.

Telemann - I've been intending to re-do it...for sure this weekend. I will try to smooth things out.

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 Post subject: Re: Albeniz and Telemann
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 4:37 am 
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techneut wrote:
@InFlightPiano : Nice to see someone dropping in again after a long absence.


Thank you. I'm really going to try to get active here again. I've been somewhat less active with piano over the past couple of years because I graduated from high school and am in college now at NC State University, majoring in computer science. I'm a lot more busy now than when I was in high school, and somehow, after doing all my homework assignments, practicing piano feels more like a chore than it used to. Of course I know most of you guys have full time jobs and you do lots of piano practicing anyway so I know I can do it too. I still love playing piano and have continued learning new pieces. But my piano doesn't sound good at all on recording, and I don't have many recording opportunities. But nevertheless I'm going to make a real effort to become an active member again.

Samuel


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 Post subject: Re: Albeniz and Telemann
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 6:25 am 
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pianolady wrote:
Those fermatas--I just don't think they are supposed to be there. They don't make sense, so I ignored them.
That could be right, as I don't see them in the UME score.

pianolady wrote:
The closing chord--I intentionally brought out the middle note, the d-flat, instead of the top f. I think the ending sounds better this way. Doesn't it?
Not sure. To be pedantic about it, bringing out certain notes is fine but leaving out notes not.

pianolady wrote:
F-sharp at 2:15? Sorry, but I'm not following...I don't see any f-sharp there.
See image. This is from the UME score.

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 Post subject: Re: Albeniz and Telemann
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 3:06 pm 
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techneut wrote:
pianolady wrote:
The closing chord--I intentionally brought out the middle note, the d-flat, instead of the top f. I think the ending sounds better this way. Doesn't it?
Not sure. To be pedantic about it, bringing out certain notes is fine but leaving out notes not.

I did play the top note--just brought out the middle note much more so perhaps it's hard for some people to hear.

techneut wrote:
See image. This is from the UME score.

Oh, I have that note in my score too! Never saw it!! :shock:
Thanks, I'll put a circle around it.

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 Post subject: Re: Albeniz and Telemann
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 3:09 pm 
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pianolady wrote:
I did play the top note--just brought out the middle note much more so perhaps it's hard for some people to hear.

I'm deaf.

pianolady wrote:
Oh, I have that note in my score too! Never saw it!! :shock:

You're blind.

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 Post subject: Re: Albeniz and Telemann
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 3:26 pm 
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:lol: :lol: :lol:
(what a pair of admins..... :P )

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 Post subject: Re: Albeniz and Telemann
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 10:43 am 
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pianolady wrote:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
(what a pair of admins..... :P )

Indeed. If it weren't so pathetic you'd have to laugh about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Albeniz and Telemann
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 9:34 pm 
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Quite a nice contrasting pair of pieces. I don't know them at all, so I'll have to restrict myself to generalities. Re Baroque ornamentation, as the last time I took a Baroque piece to my teacher, I found out that half the ornaments worked a different way from how I thought they did :shock: (and I think wikipedia might have also been wrong), I'll keep very quiet.. except to say that there have been vast scholarly tomes on it and I'm not sure even they reach a consensus.

I do prefer the Albeniz, which is a fun piece. In both you have nice variations in dynamic levels within the pieces. The Telemann sounds a little bit sub-Scarlatti-ish. As ever in your playing, good articulation. One thing bothered me, it's small but tiresome - where is that extraneous note(s) in the Telemann final chord coming from? That can't be right.


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 Post subject: Re: Albeniz and Telemann
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 4:29 am 
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Thank you, Andrew!
But I'm confused regarding what you mean on the last chord in the Telemann. I did change it a little bit, but I only dropped the LH and octave and rolled the RH chord. I didn't think that was inappropriate. And I only did that on the repeat. I'm planning on re-recording the piece one of these days...I keep getting side-tracked...but maybe tomorrow. I hope you come back soon and tell me. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Albeniz and Telemann
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 9:22 am 
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By all means roll it. That's perfectly within the style. I was pretty sure there was a diminished 7th in the last chord. I put it into Audacity and slowed it down to check; it sounds like your thumb didn't hit the bottom A of the treble chord very cleanly and there's a G as well. I wouldn't worry about it too much, no-one else has commented on it.


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 Post subject: Re: Albeniz and Telemann
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 1:21 pm 
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Ah....I've done that before. Sharp ears, Andrew! :) Thank you, I'll be careful on my next recording.

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 Post subject: Re: Albeniz and Telemann
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 3:22 pm 
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Beautiful pieces, very enjoyable. More importantly, you seem to enjoy playing them as well which brings a feeling of freshness, openness. Your preference towards Albeniz is evident though.


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 Post subject: Re: Albeniz and Telemann
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 6:48 pm 
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wiser_guy wrote:
Beautiful pieces, very enjoyable. More importantly, you seem to enjoy playing them as well which brings a feeling of freshness, openness. Your preference towards Albeniz is evident though.


Thank you, Pantelis! I do like the Albeniz best, but I like the Gigue too.
You just gave me an idea: I'm going to smile throughout the whole piece when I make my re-recording. I wonder if that can effect the sound--make it sound even more like I enjoy playing the music. Hmmmm.... :idea:

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