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PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:06 pm 
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pianolady wrote:
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In case anyone is interested, I think I have done it. I have the DLL and the Acousticas things in my Wavepad program. Now all I have to do is learn how to use all this stuff!


Wow, that´s great, Monica. I have it, too, now, and I can use it. I just have a little problem, but which is no real one. I described it in my thread of Saties Gnossienne.
Isn´t Didier a fantastic person, that he gave us the link to this rich treasure?!

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:06 pm 
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Hi all,

near 4 years ago, I wrote after submitting my recording of this work, which is currently on Pianosociety
Quote:
I shall work again the LH, the RH thirds and the end.
.

I did it and would like the new attached recording to replace the old one.

Didier


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 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Hungarian Melody D. 817
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:29 am 
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Hello Didier, it's nice to see you here again! :)

Sometimes I like being an admin, and sometimes I do not. Right now I do not, because of what I have to tell you.... :(
I'm sorry, but we can't take this recording. There are too many things wrong with it....mostly your rhythm.

To be more specific:

1. Bars 20 and 22 - where are the thirds? Sounds like you only play one note.

2. Bars 27-28, 31-32 - the rhythm is off

3. Bars 42 and 46 - should not slow down

4. At bar 53 and on a little - you turn the steady and even LH 8th notes into a dotted rhythm (at least that how it sounds to me). In happens in another spot later on too.

5. 73-78 - more rhythm problems.

Basically, I think your beat needs to be steady throughout the whole piece. Some of the spots I mention above - if you crush the grace notes, you can get them out faster, which will in turn make the rhythm tighter and the right amount of beats in the bar. (hope that makes sense?)

Also, I have often heard from other members that my dynamics are not defined enough....this time I have to say that yours are not either. You don't get soft enough, nor loud enough. I always blame my speakers and my recording setup (which is true!). Maybe you have a similar excuse...? :wink: :)

Anyway, again, I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I think that if you listen to other recordings of this piece, and then practice at a slow tempo with a metronome, you can iron out some of these problems.

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 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Hungarian Melody D. 817
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:34 am 
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Hi Monica,

thank you for your thorough listening and for spotting me on some missing notes and rhythm issues. I will try to get this right.
Your are right blaming your speakers because my dynamics are fine ! :D
Look at the screenshot here below: the upper track is the left channel of my recording, which I applied 2 dB gain to for getting the same mean level like the downer track, which is the left channel of Brigitte Engerer's recording issued in 2008, the best version in the current discography in my opinion. (It is one of her last recordings. She passed away in last June because of a cancer, 10 days after her farewell concert at Théâtre des Champs Élysées.)


Attachments:
Capture-2.jpg
Capture-2.jpg [ 77.28 KiB | Viewed 3637 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Hungarian Melody D. 817
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:31 pm 
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Hi Didier,
this is a subtle interpretation in an excellent sound-quality! I have enjoyed it very much. But I have to admit, there are some rhythmical problems here and there and also with the completeness of the thirds at some places (as Monica has pointed out correctly above). Sometimes you also drop the third in the chords of accompaniment in the left hand. I also would recommend to practise the whole piece first with metronome in a very slow tempo, so that you can pay attention to all tones you have to play. When this is o.k., you could raise the tempo and at the end play it without metronome and some rubati. (And all the other musical interpretations you want to do.) But - especially in your case - a solide practising with metronome would be the base for bringing out all the marvellous and subtle things you want to do from the musical aspect and you are very able to do!

Nice to "see" you again! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Hungarian Melody D. 817
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:01 pm 
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Hi Andreas,

thank you for your kind comment. My interpretation is not so personal: I copied much the recording from Brigitte Engerer, except for some faults that I introduced as my own signature ! :P
I hope that I will fix the issues mentioned by Monica and yourself in a short term. I have worked too long on this piece and my previous recording currently available from Pianosociety is much worse.


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 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Hungarian Melody D. 817
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:39 am 
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Didier wrote:
I have worked too long on this piece and my previous recording currently available from Pianosociety is much worse.

Actually, I listened to the version up on the main site and your rhythm is better in it. As far as dynamics, my speakers are good and so are my ears. I meant that I blame my mics, not my speakers. My files all look the same as yours, but it's weird...sometimes on a certain recording one can hear the dynamics changing dramatically, but on other recordings, the dynamics sound flat. Your dynamics here sound kind of flat to me, although I can 'see' that they are not...but you can't really hear it that much.... I can't explain it.

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 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Hungarian Melody D. 817
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:04 pm 
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Didier, are you taking lessons ? If not, would you consider it ? Mainly (only, really) to improve your sense of rhythm and tempo. It's such a shame, you play so beautifully and musically, and your instrument and recorded sound are top-notch. But your rhythm sucks... there is no better way to put it. You should practice with a metronome, which is necessary but by far not sufficient. Playing Bach, lots of it, will help. Expert guidance would be ideal.
Let be know what you think.

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 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Hungarian Melody D. 817
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:43 pm 
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Hi Chris,

my last lessons were 8 years ago. My teacher, who came from Kirghizistan, went away because she was not authorized staying in France. I have not time enough for taking lessons at normal hours. I am practising piano late in the evening. I am confident that I can solve my rhythm issues alone. Monica was right not accepting this submission. The next one will be better. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Hungarian Melody D. 817
PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:06 am 
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Hi,

here is my new recording of this work.
Any remark is welcome !
Didier

Edit
I just uploaded a second file (_3). It is the same recording with extra equalization for taming more the low frequencies. I much prefer the clarity from this one.


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 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Hungarian Melody D. 817
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:19 pm 
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Hi Didier,
It's getting better. The rhythm is still off from 1:39-1:48. Also between 1:48 - 1:55: you are tending to slip back into the uneven LH here too where you're playing it long-short, instead of even. The tempo fluctuates between 2:28 and 2:45.

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 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Hungarian Melody D. 817
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:01 pm 
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It seems better overall, certainly in the beginning where it now sounds like you appliy rather too much rubato :D
But there's still far too many many strange rhythm glitches, specifically in all the places with thirds. I remember from your Moment Musical that thirds don't come easy to you. You must take special care not to let technical issues disrupt the rhythm. Many people will not notice a slip or missed notes, but everybody notices a stumble. The better ears will notice both.

I still think you should take some lessons. You say you have no time but I don't really believe that. If you have time to practice, record, and fiddle with equalizers you surely can find some time for a lesson now and then ?

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 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Hungarian Melody D. 817
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:26 pm 
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Hi Monica and Chris,


thank you for your listening. I agree with your remarks. I will record it fully again.

Didier


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 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Hungarian Melody D. 817
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:56 am 
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Hi Didier,

You do a terrific job creating a sense of "response" in the B section. I played this piece
and I really enjoyed your artistry at doing this.

Congratulations.

Kaila

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 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Hungarian Melody D. 817
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:23 am 
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Didier wrote:
thank you for your listening. I agree with your remarks.

Sorry for the continuous rhythm-bashing. There is much good here, and if you could create order in your playing your recordings would be real good.
I'd be interested to know if you hear all the glitches yourself when you listen back critically.

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 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Hungarian Melody D. 817
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:19 pm 
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techneut wrote:
I'd be interested to know if you hear all the glitches yourself when you listen back critically.


That's interesting...me too! I remember a time when Robert submitted something and I tried telling him that his rhythm was off in this one spot, but he didn't hear that.

Also, Didier, I still say the rhythm on your original version on the site is better than these recent attempts. But I’ve just had another idea that may possibly help (or maybe I've already mentioned the idea....can't remember now..). Anyway, I have had to do this myself when encountering a particular rhythmic spot in a piece that I just couldn’t get right.

Hopefully, you have a smartphone, or iPod, or any kind of mp3 player with headphones. Upload a good recording of the piece and sit at your piano while listening to it. Try playing along with it as you listen, and repeat the trouble spots over and over again with your fingers on the keys. It’s like pounding the rhythm into your fingers.

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 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Hungarian Melody D. 817
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:18 pm 
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musicrecovery wrote:
You do a terrific job creating a sense of "response" in the B section.


Thank you Kaila. :D I shall say that it is mostly imitation from the recording by Brigitte Engerer that I mentionned above.


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 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Hungarian Melody D. 817
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:43 pm 
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techneut wrote:
I'd be interested to know if you hear all the glitches yourself when you listen back critically.


Some become obvious once I have been pointed to them. Like the bars 27-28, 31-32 in my April recording as pointed out by Monica. I also hear clearly that my thirds are not as good like the ones of Brigitte Engerer but I am facing technical limits here and I am happy enough that they are better than in my old recording. Some rhythm issues are less obvious to me and I shall measure the beats on the recorded waveform for confirming that Monica and you are right... :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Hungarian Melody D. 817
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:58 pm 
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pianolady wrote:
I still say the rhythm on your original version on the site is better than these recent attempts.


Certainly true in the sections of the rhythm issues that you pointed out. However I prefer ... my future version ! :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Hungarian Melody D. 817
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:57 pm 
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Didier wrote:
pianolady wrote:
I still say the rhythm on your original version on the site is better than these recent attempts.


Certainly true in the sections of the rhythm issues that you pointed out. However I prefer ... my future version ! :lol:



:lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Hungarian Melody D. 817
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:16 pm 
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I often find that it's quite hard to remove bad habits from repertoire I learned while I had the bad habit. It's just in the muscle memory for those pieces. It's possible, but takes a long time, and it is much easier to learn new repertoire consistently without the bad habits. Why not pick some other Schubert and start fresh?


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 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Hungarian Melody D. 817
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:39 pm 
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hreichgott wrote:
Why not pick some other Schubert and start fresh?


Because it is like high jump: I am allowed three attempts. :wink:
Here is my third one.


Attachments:
schubert-d817-brest_2013_4.mp3 [4.8 MiB]
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 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Hungarian Melody D. 817
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:22 pm 
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I'm sorry, Didier, but I'm afraid this is strike 3. I tried hard to find the pulse in the B section but still can't fine one. Also, your tempo fluctuates in the coda section - you slow down, speed up, slow down. Sorry.... :(

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 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Hungarian Melody D. 817
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:15 pm 
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Hi Monica,

I agree that the B section could be better and would like it to be so. However it is much better than the one on the site. Please listen to both clips here attached. I might record again the coda for achieving a steadier tempo (except for the conclusive slow down).

Didier


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 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Hungarian Melody D. 817
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:32 am 
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Ok, I admit that this version is better than the one currently on the site. I hope you can fix up the ending. Practicing with the metronome should help. Also, if you plan on editing in a new ending, then be careful with the clicks. I think I heard an editing click at 0:17 on the short sample on the post above this one (as well as a couple other spots too on the whole-piece recording).

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 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Hungarian Melody D. 817
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:33 pm 
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Hi,

Here is a version with a revised coda.

Didier

Schubert - Hungarian Melody in B minor, D817


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 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Hungarian Melody D. 817
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:04 pm 
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Hi Didier,

Ok, it's a little better now. I've replaced the file on the main site with this one.

Looking back on this thread, I wonder how many times and how many minutes (hours?) I've spent working with you on this....

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 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Hungarian Melody D. 817
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:10 pm 
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Hi Monica,

thank you so much for your help and your time !

Didier


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 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Hungarian Melody D. 817
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:45 am 
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I've lost track of the many versions and revisions of this piece. I'm sure what we have now is far better than when you started, but to my rhythm-conscious ears it's still rather a cakewalk. I don't think this has to do with technical limits, more with a lack of formal training. Can't you really get some lessons from a good teacher to work on this particular topic ? One other possibility is to try find someone else to play ensemble with (any instrument will do). A great way learn to to keep your tempo and rhythm in check.

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 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Hungarian Melody D. 817
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:46 am 
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Hi Didier,
that's really the best version until now and the rhythmical things are nearly o.k. now from my view, just a little bit unprecise here and there. But in bar 21 and 69 and parallele places on the last beats the two first thirds are wrong concerning the melody. The thirty second runs should also be overworked, they should come out clearer and more precise.
Apart from that a very nice and musical version with a splendid sound quality as we are used from you.

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 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Hungarian Melody D. 817
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:19 pm 
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Hi Andreas,

thank you much me for re-ensuring me that my recording is rhythmically not that bad ! :D

The two first thirds on the second beat of the bars 20 and 22 are E sharp + G sharp and G sharp + B.
The two first thirds on the second beat of the bars 68 and 70 are A sharp + C sharp and C sharp + E.
I agree that the higher notes of the second thirds (B and E) should be clearer (or better tuned ? My piano may have suffered from the hot and wet weather). I could have made these notes come out better if I would not have been focused on making Monica hear the lower ones because oh her initial comment. :wink:
However I think that I played the right notes. :?:

Could you precise what you call the thirty second runs ?
(At t = 30 s, it is the beginning of a section pp at bar 19. There is no run here.)

Didier


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 Post subject: Re: Schubert, Hungarian Melody D. 817
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:29 am 
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Hi Didier,

Quote:
The two first thirds on the second beat of the bars 20 and 22 are E sharp + G sharp and G sharp + B.


That´s right, so it is in my score, too. But it sounds as you would play the third e sharp + g sharp two times. Yes, the higher note of the second third (g sharp + b) should be much more audible, because that´s the main melody.
With the parallele place in bar 68 + 70 it´s exact the same problem.

Quote:
My piano may have suffered from the hot and wet weather)


Yes, one hears that a little bit (if I compare with your older version), but it doesn´t matter. I think we all have to fight with that problems these summer days.


Quote:
Could you precise what you call the thirty second runs ?


For example in bar 18 (counted back from the end, sorry I have no bar numbers in my score). Thirty second run in german is Zweiunddreißigstel-Lauf.

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