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 Post subject: Beethoven Sonata No.8 in C minor, Op.13
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:22 am 
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Location: New York City
Hi everyone,

It has taken some time for me to record again but,
thankfully, I have been able to work on Beethoven's Pathetique Sonata.

Some unplanned interpretive things occurred during the recording from the incredible nature of the piano.
The tone was directing me do things that were not in my original concept of the piece.
I hope these things worked. I know the performance is not note perfect.

I also have a video of this performance that I will post in a few days. I've noticed there are
some performance videos posted on the composer pages. Is there a procedure in place to submit a video
audition along with an audio file ? I have several performance videos I would like to submit for the audio files
that are already posted on my artist page.

Regards,
Kaila

Beethoven - Sonata Op.13 ("Pathetique") - 1: Grave; Allegro di molto e con brio (10:25)
Beethoven - Sonata Op.13 ("Pathetique") - 2: Adagio Cantabile (6:49)
Beethoven - Sonata Op.13 ("Pathetique") - 3: Rondo; Allegro (5:18)


Performance Videos:
1: Grave; Allegro di molto e con brio (10:25)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKCoMysnaNA&list=UULhJuumHMsfqkpKhKdt7y0A&index=3&feature=plcp
2: Adagio Cantabile (6:49)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVq_T9_56gU&list=UULhJuumHMsfqkpKhKdt7y0A&index=2&feature=plcp
3: Rondo; Allegro (5:18)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX4IYCzzRMU&list=UULhJuumHMsfqkpKhKdt7y0A&index=1&feature=plcp

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Last edited by musicrecovery on Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Beethoven Sonata No.8 in C minor, Op.13
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:09 pm 
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A very likeable performance with some nice touches. You sound inspired and at ease with the music. If it's not a sexist thing to say, your playing has a certain feminine charm, which is appealing yet at odds with the angry young man Beethoven. I'd have liked a bit more bite overall, but there's no law saying that Beethoven always must be played so dramatically.
There were a couple of dubious notes, and you're a little taxed in places but nothing that spoils the experience. Of course it would be nice not to have these little flaws but it's a good recording as it stands. I will put it up tonight.

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 Post subject: Re: Beethoven Sonata No.8 in C minor, Op.13
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:25 pm 
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This is on the site. Please check if all is ok. The filenames were correct, but next time can you please also comply with the guidelines for ID3 tagging as described in this sticky topic:
http://pianosociety.com/new/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=5115&p=51530

Re: your question about videos. We have some on the site, but never quite made up our mind what to do about them except for deciding to allow max one per person. Nowadays we (I) lean towards thinking videos are best posted on YouTube.

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 Post subject: Re: Beethoven Sonata No.8 in C minor, Op.13
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:05 am 
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Hello Kaila,
I have listened to your complete sonata rendition and for me it conveys a wonderful musicianship tied to a very intentional keyboard technique. Your attention to phrase shape, resolution of dissonance, voicing according to function and importance, a tempo that is punctuated according to form, excellent use of rubato and breath, for me is ample display of a mature artist that is more concerned with the lyric quality of this work than it's youthful raw emotional power. Your interpretation, for me, was at once both sensitive and intelligent. If your approach was somewhat reserved, I would think it only slightly so. You gave me such detail in your playing that It was a pleasure to listen to. I appreciate this performance VERY much! Thank you for this excellent contribution.

Regards,
Eddy

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 Post subject: Re: Beethoven Sonata No.8 in C minor, Op.13
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:37 pm 
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I too have listened to your recording. Not all sturm und drang, donnerwetter and all that, but, as Eddy says, with a deeper understanding of the piece. I have always wondered at the contrast between his chasmber music with piano and his solo works: why they were so different, but here I sensed the sonota at the same level, not as angry emotion, but tranquility.

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 Post subject: Re: Beethoven Sonata No.8 in C minor, Op.13
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:03 am 
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It's very nice, thoughtful playing. Eddy drew attention to the resolution of dissonance, and in the first movement it was interesting how you appeared to make the most of holding on to the dissonant (or rather, requiring to be resolved) chords. Quite a nice effect of tension results.

The only thing I can quibble about, and really it is a quibble which I raise out of interest. In the second movement, of which I am very fond, most of the time you voiced the upper melodic line nicely, but in a few places the upper and lower voices didn't seem to be delineated. Is this an intentional decision, or is it a manifestation of something else? It occurred to me that the separation of voices typically didn't occur when the interval was narrow, but always occurred on the larger intervals around the octave range.

Anyway, a thoroughly enjoyable performance - thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Beethoven Sonata No.8 in C minor, Op.13
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:06 am 
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Hello Chris, Eddy, Richard and Andrew,

Thank you for listening to all three movements. Thank you for your encouragement and kind words.
To answer your question Andrew, I did hear the bass as a part of the melody in one or two spots.
I just played it like that because I felt it worked.

I listened to Claudio Arrau's recording for a year and a half almost every day on the way to work.

Odd thing is, when I started playing that piano a lot of things I thought about got pushed away from
my consciousness and the action and the sonority of the piano was all I could think about. I rarely get
to play on a Steinway these days. That particular piano's tone became paramount to the performance.
It was all about the piano in my mind.

I will be posting the video shortly.

Kaila

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Last edited by musicrecovery on Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Beethoven Sonata No.8 in C minor, Op.13
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:30 am 
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Hi Kaila,
You go, girl!..I think you did a great job here! Very nice playing. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Beethoven Sonata No.8 in C minor, Op.13
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:51 pm 
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Thanks Monica. That means a lot to me!

Kaila

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 Post subject: Re: Beethoven Sonata No.8 in C minor, Op.13
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:39 am 
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Like the above posters, I've enjoyed this recording a lot, especially with regards to the 1st movement, which you play with illuminating poetry (e.g holding onto the dissonant chords etc.) This is quite a feat, given the abundance of so many good recordings of this sonata. It seems that you know precisely how long to wait for the Grave introduction and interludes (almost making me fall over in anticipation), as well as how to shape the phrases and the like. While there are a few regrettable slips in the repeat of the first section of the first mvt, as well as the transitory phrase back to the A section in the slow mvt, this was a joy to listen to, regardless. Thanks for sharing.


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 Post subject: Re: Beethoven Sonata No.8 in C minor, Op.13
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:46 pm 
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Hi, Kaila!

Despite some couple of wrong notes, you shape each phrase with great care. It's really different from my personal approach: I prefer a more direct one in classic pieces like this, but it works for you and makes this a convincing performance!

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 Post subject: Re: Beethoven Sonata No.8 in C minor, Op.13
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:04 pm 
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Kaila - very nice job. I really liked your dynamics and clear articulation in the Adagio Cantabile. The tempo was nice, although to me the middle section could have had more drive (but my ears may be biased on this one from overexposure).

I also really liked the 3rd movement - very clear with nice phrasing.

Great job!

Matt

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 Post subject: Re: Beethoven Sonata No.8 in C minor, Op.13
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:59 am 
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Hello Jonathan, Luís, and Matt,

Thank you for listening and for your encouragement and perspectives.

The performance videos are now uploaded to youtube, so I will link them here and
in my initial comment frame with audio file site links.

Regards,
Kaila


1: Grave; Allegro di molto e con brio (10:25)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKCoMysnaNA&list=UULhJuumHMsfqkpKhKdt7y0A&index=3&feature=plcp
2: Adagio Cantabile (6:49)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVq_T9_56gU&list=UULhJuumHMsfqkpKhKdt7y0A&index=2&feature=plcp
3: Rondo; Allegro (5:18)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX4IYCzzRMU&list=UULhJuumHMsfqkpKhKdt7y0A&index=1&feature=plcp

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 Post subject: Re: Beethoven Sonata No.8 in C minor, Op.13
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:35 pm 
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Hello Kaila,
For some reasons YouTube doesn't work anymore on my computer, but I could download the mp3 files, and we have listened your Pathetical with my wife. We really enjoyed it ! I haven't found your rendition too 'feminine', I mean you have a good vigor and Beethovenian drive, while you also show a very delicate phrasing. The only minor criticism from us could be the leading voice in the second movement, which could be a little more emphasized, like a string instrument played with a bow - not easy to do on a piano, however ! But the result is globally beautiful, with a special mention for the third movement. Congratulations !

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 Post subject: Re: Beethoven Sonata No.8 in C minor, Op.13
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:11 am 
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Hello Francois,

Thank you for your careful listening. Your point about the melody in the second movement is an interesting one. There is no doubt that the melody
can be played in a more out front manner. It has a lyricism and appeal that is transcedental and universally known.

Kaila

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 Post subject: Re: Beethoven Sonata No.8 in C minor, Op.13
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:34 pm 
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Francois de Larrard wrote:
(...)For some reasons YouTube doesn't work anymore on my computer (...)


This has happened twice to me. You need to update your Flash player and reboot your computer.

Kaila, besides listening, I have watched you on YouTube and my comments are as valid as the ones I made before, so I shall not repeat myself.

I always like to watch pianists, principally when they do as you do, showing hands, arms and feet. It is almost like a lesson in itself.

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 Post subject: Re: Beethoven Sonata No.8 in C minor, Op.13
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:40 pm 
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richard66 wrote:
This has happened twice to me. You need to update your Flash player and reboot your computer.

Thanks Richard for your advice, but unfortunateley, although I have tried many times to update my Flash player, I still have the same problem. I have spent hours going on forums and trying to fix the problem, without success :oops: ...

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 Post subject: Re: Beethoven Sonata No.8 in C minor, Op.13
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:39 am 
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Yes Richard, I agree. It is always interesting to watch the kinesthetics that produce the results.
One can then choose what to emulate and what to avoid.

Regards and thank you again for your input,
Kaila

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 Post subject: Re: Beethoven Sonata No.8 in C minor, Op.13
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:17 am 
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Francois de Larrard wrote:
richard66 wrote:
This has happened twice to me. You need to update your Flash player and reboot your computer.

Thanks Richard for your advice, but unfortunateley, although I have tried many times to update my Flash player, I still have the same problem.
I have spent hours going on forums and trying to fix the problem, without success...

Francois,

The performance videos are posted at my website with mp4 download links (as zip files). My project manager set this up to make it
convenient for people who might have trouble viewing the streaming video on the embedded flash video players.

Kaila


Performance Video webpages (with mp4 file download links) @specialneedsinmusic.com:

1: Grave; Allegro di molto e con brio (10:25)
http://specialneedsinmusic.com/multi_med_less/piano_performance_videos/Kaila_SysII_Beethoven_Pathetique_1st_mvt_2012_1112_/SysII_Beethoven_Pathetique_1st_mvt.html

2: Adagio Cantabile (6:49)
http://specialneedsinmusic.com/multi_med_less/piano_performance_videos/Kaila_SysII_Beethoven_Pathetique_2nd_mvt_2012_1112_/SysII_Beethoven_Pathetique_2nd_mvt.html

3: Rondo; Allegro (5:18)
http://specialneedsinmusic.com/multi_med_less/piano_performance_videos/Kaila_SysII_Beethoven_Pathetique_3rd_mvt_2012_1112_/SysII_Beethoven_Pathetique_3rd_mvt.html

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 Post subject: Re: Beethoven Sonata No.8 in C minor, Op.13
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:15 am 
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I finally got a chance to hear your "Pathetique". You have done a wonderful job. Your approach gave me a fresh, new listening experience to this old "war horse".

Scott


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 Post subject: Re: Beethoven Sonata No.8 in C minor, Op.13
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:25 am 
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Scott,

Thank you for listening and for your kind words and thoughts on my interpretation of the Pathetique.

Regards,
Kaila

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 Post subject: Re: Beethoven Sonata No.8 in C minor, Op.13
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:00 am 
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techneut wrote:
There were a couple of dubious notes, and you're a little taxed in places but nothing that spoils the experience. Of course it would be nice not to have these little flaws but it's a good recording as it stands. I will put it up tonight.

Chris,
We decided to edit a couple of places in the first movement. Attached is the edited performance file and I would like to
replace the first upload if it is ok to do so.

Thanks,
Kaila


Beethoven - Sonata Op.13 ("Pathetique") - 1: Grave; Allegro di molto e con brio (10:24)

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 Post subject: Re: Beethoven Sonata No.8 in C minor, Op.13
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:30 pm 
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No problem, it's been replaced. It was probably a good idea to iron out some of the little creases, minor as they were.

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 Post subject: Re: Beethoven Sonata No.8 in C minor, Op.13
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:09 pm 
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Thank you Chris.

Regards,
kaila

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 Post subject: Re: Beethoven Sonata No.8 in C minor, Op.13
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:41 pm 
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musicrecovery wrote:
Francois,
The performance videos are posted at my website with mp4 download links (as zip files). My project manager set this up to make it
convenient for people who might have trouble viewing the streaming video on the embedded flash video players.
Kaila

Your project manager had a bright idea ! Thank you, it was nice to see you playing this eternal music... Regards,

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 Post subject: Re: Beethoven Sonata No.8 in C minor, Op.13
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:22 am 
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Kaila,

For me, it's always a pleasure to hear a Beethoven sonata, and I do enjoy many things about your performance -- there is at times a great nobility in your conception. Of course, also in a piece this famous, there's bound to be widely diverging opinions on how it should be played, and I admit to being opinionated on the subject. A few suggestions/details about the performance:

First movement: In the grave intro, I think the dotted rhythms are held too long and are creating a sense of ponderousness where there should be a sort of stark grandeur. IMHO your gesture is in the right ballpark, but there needs to be more tautness on the dots, as well as more balance and color to produce a greater dialogue between the bass and the suspenseful filigree in the right hand -- in particular, I would recommend playing the chromatic scale that leads into the allegro in a lighter way and with more abandon.

When the allegro gets going, the pedalling and sound seem bit thick. I very much like the way you begin the section with the cross over portatos in the right hand (my druthers would be to hear more melodic direction in the bass though). Overall, maybe just go a bit easier on the pedal; at least to my ears, it's drowning out some of the clarity (e.g., mm. 99-100 and 111-112 where those bass octaves are separated by rests). I like the way you accentuate the octave melody in the development, as well as your idea for bringing out the bass in the passages in chromatic broken sixths -- there you could just use a bit more bite and finger independence to bring it out and avoid the smudges. Your broken octaves do seem to struggle throughout a little evenness-wise, notably in the lead-in to the reprise of the portato section. I must say though it's perhaps a bit drawn out for my taste, I do like the sense of suspense that you create with the brief grave section before the coda -- very exciting.

Second movement: I'll be briefer here (the first movement seems to be the one that can be a devil for the details. :P) Overall, there's nothing technical I object to here; your melody is quite well voiced. However, it seems like you need to make the phrases more your own; I find it rather pedestrian and lacking in nuance and rubato. I would just relax a bit more, have this be more of a love song than a chore and let the phrases speak the way you hear them (I do like your chromatic lead-back to the reprise at 28).

Third movement: Certainly not bad, but I miss a lot of the clarity and bite here; some notes aren't sounding as part of your triplets (to my ears), and I'd recommend being a bit more careful regarding the rhythm and tempo -- there are times you noticeably slow down and other times you're fine. There are also some noticeable problems with evenness.

It's a war horse, but it's also MHO a deceptively tricky piece technically, as is most Beethoven. I think you're on the right track but would ideally want to have a bit more technical security so that you can better accomplish what you want to do with the music.

Joe

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 Post subject: Re: Beethoven Sonata No.8 in C minor, Op.13
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:51 pm 
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jlr43 wrote:
Kaila,

For me, it's always a pleasure to hear a Beethoven sonata, and I do enjoy many things about your performance -- there is at times a great nobility in your conception. Of course, also in a piece this famous, there's bound to be widely diverging opinions on how it should be played, and I admit to being opinionated on the subject. A few suggestions/details about the performance...

Hi Joe,

Thanks for your comments. If I were to play this sonata today, I would most likely play the dotted rhythms more accurately in the opening section. I got very involved in the tone of the piano and I did not want to play them too sharply because I think it takes away from the character of the opening. It is not a baroque in style as some pianists might potray it, in my opinion. It is a cross between the classical and the romantic. But I fully agree with your point that the opening could have been more accurate in timing.

Also, I realize that some of the tempos are uneven at times during the performance. That could have been better.  However, I am not going to rerecord this piece now, because I think the opening does reflect an interpretive view that Beethoven was alluding to. Will I rerecord it in a few years? Probably. Hopefully. I will focus more on eveness of tempos in my next recording.

We all know that from time to time, it is important to take liberties with tempos. I once recorded the Debussy Toccata and intentionally took liberties with the tempo because I feel the character of the moment is missed by a lot of pianists. That piece is very mechanically played.
I recorded it years ago and so do not feel it is eligible to audition at the Piano Society. I would be interested in your comments about it.

As for your other comments, well, you may be right about a few things or you may have been a bit overly critical, or that is your view and you certainly are entitled to it. You certainly have given me a lot to think about and take into consideration for the next recording on that beautiful piano.

All the best and much appreciation for your feedback,
Kaila

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 Post subject: Re: Beethoven Sonata No.8 in C minor, Op.13
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:00 am 
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jlr43 wrote:
A few suggestions/details about the performance...

Hello Joe,

I reread your comments and listened again to my performance and have decided to practice "The Poets's Harp" by Mendelssohn
without the pedal to improve the even texture of the harp pattern. Thank you again for your critical listening that is the catalyst for a
different approach to my current practicing.

Much appreciation,
Kaila

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 Post subject: Re: Beethoven Sonata No.8 in C minor, Op.13
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:23 pm 
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Hi Kaila,

I really enjoyed hearing your rendition of the "Pathetique". I've heard the introduction, Grave, played the way you've chosen only once before, at a recital given by Ruth Slenczynska in the 1960s. As was the case then, I believe that under your hands, it works quite successfully. In the Adagio Beethoven's concept was a string quartet, which is why it often appears like part writing, and I believe your sound there emulated it well. The Rondo has a couple of devilish spots, but you negotiated them very well. Overall you bring always the right touch and achieve a wonderful evenness in your playing so necessary for music of the era. Thank you for sharing your beautiful rendition.

David

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 Post subject: Re: Beethoven Sonata No.8 in C minor, Op.13
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:22 am 
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Hello David,

What a compliment, to be compared to Ruth Slenczynska. I remember hearing of her when I was a child.
I thought of the second movement as almost a folk music in a way. I know that sounds strange, but almost like a nature song.

Thank you for your kind words.

Kaila

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