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 Post subject: Bach-Brahms Chaconne for left hand alone
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:01 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:29 pm
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Location: Brazil
Hi!

I haven't been online for a month or so... there are plenty of new recordings I got to check, and also reply comments on my last one.

But it is holiday here, so I DO NEED to go to the beach right soon. :D

This is my last recording. The support to my performance are my studies on Baroque practice (Baroque articulation and inflection), one masterclass with Judy Tarling and the inspiring historically informed recordings by Bob van Asperen and Lucy van Dael.

I've also made a video of it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vEd40U7Itw

I hope the MP3 and tags are okay. This is the first time I edit a recording of mine on Ubuntu (no, Windows no more!)

Bach/Brahms - Chaconne for left hand alone (13:52)

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Luís Sarro


Last edited by luissarro on Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bach-Brahms Chaconne for left hand alone
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:55 am 
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Location: Lyon, France
Hello Luis,
Beautiful ! I know by heart this piece, and I have played it in concert many years ago, so listening your recording reminded me good memories. I like your interpretation, and the way you conduct the variations, with nice changes in atmosphere, but keeping a quite constant tempo (except when D major is coming, but everybody does that, and I think it is permitted...). There are minor simplifications in your version (like octaves being replaced by single notes), but maybe it is a matter of edition. Also, I have noticed that you play a 'great tenth' (from Bb to D) without arpegiando: therefore I conclude you have really a wide left hand, or maybe the right hand has to do with it :wink: . Well, even if this is the case, this is a minor cheat, and it serves the music. A last question about the piano: at the beginning, on my bad computer headphones, it sounded as a digital piano, but finally I'm not sure (and I think you told us that you had recently purchased a new piano).
Regards,

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 Post subject: Re: Bach-Brahms Chaconne for left hand alone
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:02 pm 
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Location: Brazil
hi, Francois!
thanks!

No, there's no right hand here. hehe.
There'll be a video soon, and I think that proves. haha.

Wow... there are differences in your edition? Mine is Eusebius Mandyczewski.

About the piano... you got to wait for the video to check, but this is a Yamaha C1. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Bach-Brahms Chaconne for left hand alone
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:36 pm 
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Location: Springfield, Missouri, USA
Hi Luis,
I just listed to and enjoyed your performance of this wonderful work. I think you did a very excellent effort of playing it. I have performed the Busoni version and I am amazed at how rich and fullfilling this rendition of Brahms for LH alone is (my edition is the Peters/Emil von Sauer {the best for Brahms IMO}). It is just more evidence to the genius of Bach that whether performed on solo violin, piano LH alone, piano both hands, guitar, orchestra, or whatever transcription (not basson), this work is a towering masterpiece! I found you only in rare moments to lose the voicing of the melodic line. My strongest (but not strong) criticism is that you certainly slow down from your established tempo when you get to a few of the really technically difficult parts. It is also amazing to see that these are the same sections that are difficult in the Busoni rendition (I refer in this version first to the section in sextuplets followed by the 32nd note section for a few pages prior to the D major; and the 8-bars leading to the return of d-minor). To have a truely masterful performance of this work, IMO, it needs to hold together quite well from a continuity-of-tempo (this is not meant to preculde judicious rubato, to be sure).

In summary, I really salute your peformance and celebrate the addition of this recording to the library of PS! Thank you for allowing me to re-live this great work again!

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"A smattering will not do. They must know all the keys, major and minor, and they must literally 'know them backwards.'" - Josef Lhevinne


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 Post subject: Re: Bach-Brahms Chaconne for left hand alone
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:59 pm 
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Location: Brazil
hi, Eddy!
thanks for listening.
You're right: in the pp section, I dont voice the melody properly.

I used to play the Siloti romantic transcription (little similar to that of Busoni) which is already on here on PS. But after studying Baroque style, I wanted to play a less romantic version, and this one is really faithful to the original score.

This left hand version is usually played slower (there's a 20-minute long version on YouTube), but I realized that it would sound more Baroque-like if played faster. Bob van Asperen and Lucy van Dael take 12 minute for it. I tried to keep this timing in mind, but then I relaxed when I noticed that some passages (like the major section) need to breath differently on piano.

About the technical difficulties, one of tge worst passages is right in the first page: from the 8th bar, there are a series of difficult arpeggios which are quite discouraging when you're reading for the first time. Hopefully the piece gets easier after this scaring first page. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Bach-Brahms Chaconne for left hand alone
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:55 pm 
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Good job ! This piece is not insanely difficult, but it is long and tiring, especially if you do not have big hands (I guess yours are adequate).
Twenty minutes seems impossibly drawn out, but maybe on a string instrument it can work. The piano version should IMO not take so long.
I practised this piece some years ago when I had a painful RH thumb, and submitted a work-in-progress recording which received mixed feedback on account of its (minor) technical flaws.

Interesting to take it as a series of variations each with their own character. I feel it as more monolithic somehow. Your broken chords/arpeggios from 9:44 onwards sound a bit awkward, and the section starting at 11:00 sounds quite insipid. Apart from that is is a good performance despite
some wrong notes especially in the fast runs. I never found the first page especially hard, for me it's the wide arpeggios near the middle that are really painful.

I will put this on the site tonight. I have to say your piano does not sound its best here, especially not in the beginning. Later on it's not so
bad, or maybe the ear adjusts.

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 Post subject: Re: Bach-Brahms Chaconne for left hand alone
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:49 pm 
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Location: Lyon, France
luissarro wrote:
there are differences in your edition? Mine is Eusebius Mandyczewski.. :lol:

Mine is Durand. However, I realize that I had long added octaves where there are none neither in my edition nor in your interpretation. Then, forget about my point !

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"Je préfère ce qui me touche que ce qui me surprend"
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 Post subject: Re: Bach-Brahms Chaconne for left hand alone
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:32 pm 
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I was about to put this on the site but I can't work out whether to put this under Bach or Brahms. Damn transcriptions :x

And Felipe, its nice you use Ubuntu now, but can you please provide all the ID3 tags next time ?

Also, in case of a double name, you should use a slash in the Name tag (not sure if we've documented that), so:

Bach/Brahms - Chaconne for left hand alone

These details matter because my shell scripts and C programs rely on this naming.

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 Post subject: Re: Bach-Brahms Chaconne for left hand alone
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:57 pm 
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Posts: 161
Location: Brazil
Hi, Chris!

Despite the slash and the missing composer and genre, are the other tags okay? I never feel these two tags because they are optional according to the topic explaining how to write tags, and besides the MP3 players do not take them into account when showing the information on the screen. So they're not *so optional*? :lol:

Well... I think that minimun changes on how I set the microphone position makes a lot of difference on the recording. This time I just put it some milimeters farer, since last time the recording got too much noise from the dampers. I didn't expect this slight change would sound so different. I noticed it was strange, but I couldnt yet activate my Sound Blaster card on Ubuntu, so I thought it was my soundcard, not the recording set. Or maybe it's the way I added reverb on GVerb?

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 Post subject: Re: Bach-Brahms Chaconne for left hand alone
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:17 pm 
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luissarro wrote:
Despite the slash and the missing composer and genre, are the other tags okay? I never feel these two tags because they are optional according to the topic explaining how to write tags, and besides the MP3 players do not take them into account when showing the information on the screen. So they're not *so optional*? :lol:

Yeah right. As an IT guy I should know better than to make things optional. I'll go and make them mandatory now... because people never do anything unless they absolutely have to. Problem solved ! And who knows we may want to start using these tags one fine day.

luissarro wrote:
Well... I think that minimun changes on how I set the microphone position makes a lot of difference on the recording. This time I just put it some milimeters farer, since last time the recording got too much noise from the dampers. I didn't expect this slight change would sound so different. I noticed it was strange, but I couldnt yet activate my Sound Blaster card on Ubuntu, so I thought it was my soundcard, not the recording set. Or maybe it's the way I added reverb on GVerb?
I'm sure the couple of mm's would not make all the difference. If you ask me, the piano is simply out of tune. Or at least some notes are. It happens :)

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 Post subject: Re: Bach-Brahms Chaconne for left hand alone
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:47 pm 
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Chris, did this piece go up to the site?
I checked in my page and I didn't find anything, not on Brahms or on Bach. I also checked on your page, because you also recorded this transcription, and I found nothing.

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 Post subject: Re: Bach-Brahms Chaconne for left hand alone
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:18 pm 
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No, I was still undecided whether it should go under Bach or Brahms (was hoping for some advice as I never get the hang of transcriptions) and then forgot. My version never made it on the site.

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 Post subject: Re: Bach-Brahms Chaconne for left hand alone
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:51 pm 
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Just my opinion, but I file my Bach-Busoni Chaconne score with my Bach works. Since my Bach-Brahms score is in a volume of collected Klavierwerke of Brahms, that one is in the Brahms drawer.

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"A smattering will not do. They must know all the keys, major and minor, and they must literally 'know them backwards.'" - Josef Lhevinne


Last edited by musical-md on Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bach-Brahms Chaconne for left hand alone
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:53 pm 
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To take this decision is really difficult. I remember you've been discussed long ago.

I don't know how PianoSociety is written (I mean, the software), but a good decision would be that the transcriptions be available in both composer and arranger sections, like it is in IMSLP. I think this is not the case, right?

I myself always like to see those pieces in the Composer section, because it seems easier to find (you may even discover a not so famous transcription of a famous piece). But in some other cases, there may be rare pieces, from rare composers, being transcribed by famous composers, so in this case the easier way to find would be the opposite. Just my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Bach-Brahms Chaconne for left hand alone
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:43 pm 
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musical-md wrote:
Just my opinion, but I file my Bach-Busoni Chaconne score with my Bach works. Since my Bach-Brahms score is in a volume of collected Klavierwerke of Brahms, that one is in the Brahms drawer.

Your filing system is a marvel of logic, Eddy :P

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 Post subject: Re: Bach-Brahms Chaconne for left hand alone
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:19 am 
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Hi Luis,

I tried to download the recording and from what I hear it sounds great, however, when I opened your recording I heard the beginning, the first 13 seconds, after that the file ends abruptly :o It may be my internet, i don't know. But it looks like your performance is supposed to be just about 14 minutes. :x

I haven't heard this piece before (I haven't heard it all but I can usually remember a piece by its beginning :wink: ) Left hand alone pieces must be challenging as the composer has decided to focus exclusively on one hand, so it is like a one-line instrument, a clarinet or trumpet, but with the foot pedal as another device to control, in that way like a guitar, with the hand acting as the damper, you touch the strings to mute them and clear the diaphragm to allow them to ring free. Cool stuff :P

I look forward to the hearing the rest of your performance! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Bach-Brahms Chaconne for left hand alone
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:32 am 
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hi, Riley!

It is a problem with your internet... or maybe just a corrupt download. I just downloaded it, and it's okay. =D
You can check the YouTube video also, which has the same audio.

In this case, this left hand transcription is fine because the original piece is for solo violin. There are other transcriptions of this piece for two hands, but with only one hand you somewhat imitate the way to play several notes at once with the violin, since you can't play so many notes with only one on the piano either. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Bach-Brahms Chaconne for left hand alone
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:25 am 
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Hi again, Luis. You may or may not know that this music is not really my cup of tea, but I listened to your recording anyway, since you listened to mine (although, you owe me around eight more minutes.... :lol: ). I think you played very nicely and if I didn't know any better, I would say that it's a two-handed piece, which is a compliment to your playing.
One thing...your piano is out of tune. Maybe you can call the tuner and then re-do this? I know it's a 'big' piece and the thought of re-recording is a daunting one, but you'd want something like this to be put forth in the best possible light, right?

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 Post subject: Re: Bach-Brahms Chaconne for left hand alone
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:59 pm 
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The tuner is coming here next not black friday. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Bach-Brahms Chaconne for left hand alone
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:01 am 
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Wow, you have Black Friday there too? :shock: I thought that was just an American thing.
(I never participate; I hate crowds. It's much easier to shop online...)

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 Post subject: Re: Bach-Brahms Chaconne for left hand alone
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:30 pm 
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they have tried to do the Black Friday here in the past few years but here everything is for half double the price. no big deal.

A friend of mine is in Canada, and she told me it's the same there.

And it's funny: the black friday comes right after our black people conscience holiday. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Bach-Brahms Chaconne for left hand alone
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:00 pm 
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Excellent recording. It is quite impressive that you have so much control and precision with the left hand. I liked your dynamic contrasts a lot too.


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 Post subject: Re: Bach-Brahms Chaconne for left hand alone
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:05 pm 
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Thanks!

In fact, I must say, it's easier to play the left hand alone, because you can focus all your energy and attention into only one hand, which is not possible when you play for example a left hand etude with both hands, like Chopin's Op10/12.

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 Post subject: Re: Bach-Brahms Chaconne for left hand alone
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:01 am 
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This one is on the site. Because it is part of a set of 5 studies I have simply put it in a new page Brahms - Studies.

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 Post subject: Re: Bach-Brahms Chaconne for left hand alone
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:13 pm 
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Thanks, Chris!

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 Post subject: Re: Bach-Brahms Chaconne for left hand alone
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:48 pm 
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Played with a lot of control. Good performance and the piece is a worthy alternative to the Busoni. I imagine fatigue may be a little bit of a problem by the end.


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 Post subject: Re: Bach-Brahms Chaconne for left hand alone
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:22 am 
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techneut wrote:
This one is on the site. Because it is part of a set of 5 studies I have simply put it in a new page Brahms - Studies.

Great call, Chris!

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 Post subject: Re: Bach-Brahms Chaconne for left hand alone
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:42 am 
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Hi Luis,

I'm familiar with the two-hands Busoni version, but had never heard this Brahms transcription. I was very impressed by your playing, as the music sounds quite challenging for just one hand at times. A wonderful achievement, and my hat is off to you!

I agree with Monica that the tuning on your piano has slipped. Where the piano is new and also in the new environment of your home, it will take awhile before the piano stabilizes and settles.

David

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 Post subject: Re: Bach-Brahms Chaconne for left hand alone
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:28 pm 
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andrew wrote:
Played with a lot of control. Good performance and the piece is a worthy alternative to the Busoni. I imagine fatigue may be a little bit of a problem by the end.

Thanks for listening, Andrew!

Rachfan wrote:
I'm familiar with the two-hands Busoni version, but had never heard this Brahms transcription. I was very impressed by your playing, as the music sounds quite challenging for just one hand at times. A wonderful achievement, and my hat is off to you!

I agree with Monica that the tuning on your piano has slipped. Where the piano is new and also in the new environment of your home, it will take awhile before the piano stabilizes and settles.

Thanks for listening, David!
More than stabilizing in the room, there are also the four seasons in only one day, which is how the weather works here in São Paulo. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Bach-Brahms Chaconne for left hand alone
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:38 am 
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Luís,

It is amazing the way you build up the intensity in your playing, They rhythms are so crisp and the lines and runs are so even.
When you drop down to the piano dynamic and then go back to a mezzo forte and settle into piano it is spot on. You go back to very intense playing and the back and forth between motifs is really great. The piannisimo passages are effective and change the character of the piece completely. I am sorry I do not have the score.

I cannot imagine how difficult it is to play this with one hand. All the articulations are appropriate and within the bounds of tempo and dynamic shading.
It is interesting to listen to. The differentiation of passages is a great accomplishment.

This is definitely a performance that the listerener can learn from.

Bravo and Kudos to you!
Kaila Rochelle

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 Post subject: Re: Bach-Brahms Chaconne for left hand alone
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:13 pm 
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thanks, Kaila!

musicrecovery wrote:
You go back to very intense playing and the back and forth between motifs is really great.

I think this "back and forth between motifs" that you said is exactly the "baroque inflection". :)

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 Post subject: Re: Bach-Brahms Chaconne for left hand alone
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:43 am 
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luissarro wrote:
musicrecovery wrote:
You go back to very intense playing and the back and forth between motifs is really great.

I think this "back and forth between motifs" that you said is exactly the "baroque inflection". :)

Luís,
What a cool insight!
Kaila

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