Piano Society
Free Classical Keyboard Recordings
It is currently Sat Nov 22, 2014 2:49 am

All times are UTC - 1 hour




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 43 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:23 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8529
Hello...
We do not have this etude on the site, so I thought I'd give it a go. It's a cute little piece, but as usual it is deceivingly more difficult than it sounds. I've been trying to record it for two weeks now and still can't get it perfect. The prelude is replacing an earlier recording from several years ago that was really, really awful. I can't believe how dumb I am to have left it up on the site this long! However, this new recording is also not perfect. I don't know what's wrong lately - I'm getting worse. I am very discouraged. But no matter what I do, I can't get these two pieces any better, so here they are - warts and all. Comments appreciated, but please be gentle...

And here is another stupid photo of me (which I will remove soon) at Chopin's grave. I think I should join him six feet under there...be done with all this damn practicing that's not doing any good.



Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etudes No. 3 in D-flat Major

Chopin - Op.28 no.18, Prelude in F minor

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 12:11 am
Posts: 750
Location: Edinburgh, UK
These are both difficult pieces: don't be disheartened, they sound pretty accurate but the problem is more in the impression left. The Prelude is a bit polite for my tastes: a bigger sound is needed in places. Not sure what to advise you of in the etude. Your sound seems a bit disconnected in places: I think you're having trouble dealing with the simultaneous staccato and legato problem (hardly surprisingly) and that's affecting your thinking regarding pedalling and/or the singing legato melodic line. Sorting that out would, I suspect, leave you with a much nicer end result as the notes seem there and that's not easy by any means.

It sounds from your comments like you're overpractising. Give yourself a break; all you're achieving is reinforcing negative thoughts. Go and do something music-related by all means, but something that's going to relax you. Go back to practicing in a few weeks, you'll appreciate the time off.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:23 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8529
Thank you for listening, Andrew. I thought I had done alright with the RH in the etude. I followed all the phrase markings carefully and applied the pedal as what came naturally to me. The things I am not thrilled with is that some of my grace notes are not as crystal clear as I would like. There are no dynamic markings in the piece but whenever I tried to play some parts softer, I couldn't get the grace notes to come out at all or else I'd have some 'silent' notes. Seems like my whole playing in general is not to your liking. Also the prelude - I can't get any bigger sound than this but at least I don't screw around with the rhythm at the end like I have heard other people do.

Take weeks off from practicing? This sounds terrible to me - why and how could I ever do that? I love playing the piano! Maybe I just need to have no audience like the way it used to be. I'm better then...

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:46 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:32 pm
Posts: 499
Location: Connecticut, USA
Hi Monica,

I wouldn't be at all discouraged about your recordings here. While these are sounding a bit to me as if they are in the first stages of mastery, they are both damn difficult, as Andrew already noted, and I believe you're making good progress (isn't everything of Chopin's a bitch to play? :) ).

This nouvelle etude is IMO far and away the most difficult of the three in that set. It's an especially tough one for small hands (if that's your dilemma). I would certainly commend your nice, steady tempo. Also the staccati are generally nice and pointed. What IMHO I think you still need to work on is first getting the tempo up a bit -- it's an allegretto after all but your version is sounding more to me like a largo or adagio. From that point, you could concentrate on making the right-hand line more countoured as well as smoother and more legato. To me, it just seems as though it needs more freedom and a bit more security to enable a greater focus on interpretive aspects.

In the prelude, I hear what you're saying about wanting to get the rhythm precise, but this is one of the few Chopin pieces on which I would disagree that that's really the point. This piece is in the form of a free recitativo a la Liszt and IMHO a more spontaneous, tempestuous reading is in order. The notes are basically down, despite a few moments of less than ideal hand asynchonicity and unevennesses. It also seemed as if you are hesitating a bit too long at the terminations of measures 1-2 and 5-6. Overall I might suggest experimenting with a bit more fire and flair.

Just some suggestions for future improvement if you want to experiment. I understand your feeling completely about feeling overwhelmed and wanting to let well enough alone. In any event, again, I think you can feel proud about the progress you have made with these.

Joe

_________________
Movie Blog: http://www.criticsloft.com
Classical Music Web Site: http://www.critics-ear.com
Youtube Piano Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/Chopin849?feature=mhee


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:32 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8529
First off.....I'm sorry for all my bemoaning yesterday. Reading back, I sound like such a downer, and that's not me, normally....

(Sorry, Andrew! )


I just had it in my mind to get these two pieces recorded by (last week), and then when that didn't happen and instead I recorded these yesterday, I had a feeling that the etude was still not quite there, but I had hope. I practiced these two pieces for three - maybe four weeks. I guess I will keep working on the etude. It does hurt my hands a lot, but I think maybe I could get it to go a bit more smoother. Maybe I'll add more pedal....still not sure....

Anyway, about the prelude - I'm happy with it and will stick with this recording. Joe, thank you for your comments too. I think we just have different opinions about the rhythm, though. I don't believe it should be played like a 'free recitativo'. If so, Chopin would have wrote in 'ad lib' or whatever the words are meaning to play freely (I'm at work now and don't have time to look it up). I like Kissin's version of this prelude a lot.

But thank you for the encouragement, Joe. I really appreciate it a lot!! And thank you, Andrew, for the advice.

And you know, Joe, you sure are right about Chopin being a bitch to play. I'm starting to get a little annoyed at him for that...haha.
Maybe I will go back to Paris and have a talk with him... :x :)

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:36 pm
Posts: 302
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
pianolady wrote:
I'm sorry for all my bemoaning yesterday. Reading back, I sound like such a downer, and that's not me, normally....
Glad to see you're feeling better, hen. It was almost looking like a job for the Samaritans.
Quote:
.. about Chopin being a bitch to play. Maybe I will go back to Paris and have a talk with him...
That's right, dig him up and open the coffin. But before you give him a piece of your mind, consider that he may have mended his ways already. Did you know he was buried with some of his manuscripts, and a supply of pencils? Well, you may well find that he has used the pencils to cross out all the music on all the manuscripts, before he was finally at peace with himself, and that the music he crossed out included that about which you were going to have stern words with him. What had he been doing? De-composing, of course!

Sorry, old joke, but I thought it might cheer you up.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:27 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8529
hahaha.....yes, I've heard that joke many times, but it's still funny. Thank, Rainer, I like jokes. :)

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:12 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:18 pm
Posts: 1040
rainer wrote:
Glad to see you're feeling better, hen. It was almost looking like a job for the Samaritans.


For the well-being of your soul I sincerely hope you meant "then" and not what you wrote above.

_________________
Richard Willmer
"Please do not shoot the pianist
He is doing his best."
Oscar Wilde: Impressions of America: Leadville


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:21 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9597
Location: Netherlands
richard66 wrote:
rainer wrote:
Glad to see you're feeling better, hen. It was almost looking like a job for the Samaritans.


For the well-being of your soul I sincerely hope you meant "then" and not what you wrote above.

Rats... you beat me to it :evil: What a priceless little typo :lol:

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:22 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:18 pm
Posts: 1040
Funny how things go: I have the three Etudes, of which this is the third and I remember them being dismissed as being unworthy to share the light of day with the Etudes opp 10 and 25, some of which I play and (belive it or not) actually enjoy). I believe yours is the fisrt rendition I have heard of the latter.

You say you have been learning it and, to me it sounds just like that: as if you were playing it over to the teacher. All the notes are there and all that, but it lacks that spark you (and I mean you) have added to other recordings of yours.

When I was learning (with a teacher, that is) the policy was to bring a piece up to the point you have reached and then drop it for a month or so. I would suggest you put it back on the shelf and give it no thought for that time and then dig it out. I can guarantee that when you start playing it again you will hesitate, not because you cannot play it, but because you mind refuses to believe that you actually can.

_________________
Richard Willmer
"Please do not shoot the pianist
He is doing his best."
Oscar Wilde: Impressions of America: Leadville


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:23 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:18 pm
Posts: 1040
techneut wrote:
richard66 wrote:
rainer wrote:
Glad to see you're feeling better, hen. It was almost looking like a job for the Samaritans.


For the well-being of your soul I sincerely hope you meant "then" and not what you wrote above.

Rats... you beat me to it :evil: What a priceless little typo :lol:


Once in a while the brain works at above a snail's pace! :D

_________________
Richard Willmer
"Please do not shoot the pianist
He is doing his best."
Oscar Wilde: Impressions of America: Leadville


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:36 pm
Posts: 302
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
techneut wrote:
richard66 wrote:
rainer wrote:
Glad to see you're feeling better, hen.
For the well-being of your soul I sincerely hope you meant "then" and not what you wrote above.
Rats... you beat me to it :evil: What a priceless little typo :lol:
It's nice to have amused you two too, but at the risk of irreparable damage to my rotten soul, I should point out that this was no typo.

It's a peculiarly Scottish term of endearment. It's kind of like saying "dear", but without being too personal, in that it is applied to people across the spectrum from complete strangers to close acquaintances. It is also neither ageist (it is applied to women of all ages) nor sexist (although only applied to women, it is used by speakers of both sexes, though probably more often by women). In short, it carries no hint of an intention to offend or condescend, or anything like that. My soul should be safe.

I must admit that the first time I heard it I found it a bit strange too.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:01 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8529
At first I thought it was a typo, but then I thought it could be a term of endearment. I am female, after all, and so are hens. I don't have feathers though.... :lol:

@Richard - thank you for listening. I practiced the etude about 20 times last night, and so I will do a re-record tonight. hahaha I'm kidding. I know....I will give it a few more days and try to give it some spark (sparkle?).

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:18 pm
Posts: 1040
rainer wrote:
techneut wrote:
richard66 wrote:
rainer wrote:
Glad to see you're feeling better, hen.
For the well-being of your soul I sincerely hope you meant "then" and not what you wrote above.
Rats... you beat me to it :evil: What a priceless little typo :lol:
It's nice to have amused you two too, but at the risk of irreparable damage to my rotten soul, I should point out that this was no typo.

It's a peculiarly Scottish term of endearment. It's kind of like saying "dear", but without being too personal, in that it is applied to people across the spectrum from complete strangers to close acquaintances. It is also neither ageist (it is applied to women of all ages) nor sexist (although only applied to women, it is used by speakers of both sexes, though probably more often by women). In short, it carries no hint of an intention to offend or condescend, or anything like that. My soul should be safe.

I must admit that the first time I heard it I found it a bit strange too.


Yes, but bear in mind that in many countries calling a woman a hen is paramout to calling her something else and might result it violence if any male relatives are around.

It is like going to Greece and ordering five mugs of beer by using a perfectly normaly (to us) gesture.

_________________
Richard Willmer
"Please do not shoot the pianist
He is doing his best."
Oscar Wilde: Impressions of America: Leadville


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:35 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8529
At least here in the USA it is not bad to be called a hen. Although nobody ever says that, so for me it's kind of funny.

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:36 pm
Posts: 302
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
richard66 wrote:
Yes, but bear in mind that in many countries calling a woman a hen is paramout to calling her something else and might result it violence if any male relatives are around.
My goodness, I never thought of that! :oops: No doubt those countries include Italy and the Netherlands...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:18 pm
Posts: 1040
Ask Luis about hens and see what he says.

_________________
Richard Willmer
"Please do not shoot the pianist
He is doing his best."
Oscar Wilde: Impressions of America: Leadville


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:42 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 3:21 pm
Posts: 139
Just listened to these recordings, and they do indeed sound like bitches to play... I do agree with the others that the etude lacks the sort of flow that it sounds like it should have, coming across as laboured, especially the end from (1:40+ to 1:50), though it is technically accurate. I do think you did the section from 1:10-1:30 (roughly) well, however. But they sound like surmountable problems, do try your best over short bursts of time maybe.

Does the prelude have a nickname ("Hades")? It definitely sounds like it needs more fire and brimstone, especially the octave-apart runs which need to sound bigger.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:07 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:18 pm
Posts: 1040
rainer wrote:
richard66 wrote:
Yes, but bear in mind that in many countries calling a woman a hen is paramout to calling her something else and might result it violence if any male relatives are around.
My goodness, I never thought of that! :oops: No doubt those countries include Italy and the Netherlands...


I shall tell you one: A Salzburg farmer I know once called a Brazilian girl whom he liked, a cow, saying that in his part of the world it was a compliment. It took a long time for her to get over it.

There was also the husband who was taken to court because he complained that he was hen-pecked by his wife. And that was in the States. Maybe it it was the NAPH who did it, I do not know.

_________________
Richard Willmer
"Please do not shoot the pianist
He is doing his best."
Oscar Wilde: Impressions of America: Leadville


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:46 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8529
Affinity wrote:
Just listened to these recordings, and they do indeed sound like bitches to play... I do agree with the others that the etude lacks the sort of flow that it sounds like it should have, coming across as laboured, especially the end from (1:40+ to 1:50), though it is technically accurate. I do think you did the section from 1:10-1:30 (roughly) well, however. But they sound like surmountable problems, do try your best over short bursts of time maybe.

Does the prelude have a nickname ("Hades")? It definitely sounds like it needs more fire and brimstone, especially the octave-apart runs which need to sound bigger.


Thank you for listening, Jonathan. I practiced both pieces again last night and think that I will re-record both pieces over the weekend.

"Hades" is perfect for today!
Happy Halloween everybody!!

Image

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:07 pm
Posts: 697
Location: Carbondale, IL
Hi Monica,

I listened to both your Chopin Prelude and the Etude.

I think you play these very well, the Prelude I think you play very well, your phrasing seems controlled and the "Mannheim Rocket" descending arpeggio at the end sounded quite crisp :)

The Etude sounds like a real finger-twister. You play it well. I like your IMO 'restrained' style serves you here. You said you have trouble getting the ornaments crisp. I think they sound crisp, though perhaps not as isolated, as with a different type of piece, which is not so polyphonic. At the risk of it being even harder to play, perhaps slow down the tempo a few tics to get the ornaments crisper. Of course that might make it sound metronomic... :x I can't imagine learning this piece. The harmonic rhythm is very brisk, with some modulations so quick as to change by the beat! I don't have the score but just based on what I heard it sounds like the melody is not only in the top voice but also the alto. The harmony at :30 sounds like a F Minor goes to F# Major goes to Ab Minor and a few passing chords in between all within something like 8 beats? :shock: it sounds nice, but hard to play up to speed so I applaud you :)

Enjoyed hearing these. This repertoire suits you well :P

Riley

_________________
"I don't know what music is, but I know it when I hear it." - Alan Schuyler
Riley Tucker


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:03 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8529
Thank you, Riley! And happy birthday too!! :D

I'm glad you think these two are okay. However, I just re-recorded them both today. I hope someone will listen to them and tell me if they are improved or if it is my imagination. Of course, they still are not perfect, but I think I got them a little better.

Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etudes No. 3 in D-flat Major

Chopin - Op.28 no.18, Prelude in F minor

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:39 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 12:11 am
Posts: 750
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Hi Monica, I listened to the new versions.

The prelude - I still don't think it's "big" and angry enough, but that I guess is a matter of interpretation, rather than something concrete being wrong.

The etude - definitely improved! Is it a touch faster? I'm not sure. It seems to have more of a lilting dance feel about it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 3:21 pm
Posts: 139
Really great improvements for both pieces! The etude is definitely much less labored-sounding than your previous recording, and it flows pretty well. Like the above poster I still think your prelude is still too modest sounding, but I find your new recording more convincing than your previous one. The chords at 0:42-ish sound a bit too thin though, especially the first one, which I'm not sure if it is part of the previous phrase or not. A crescendo there might work. The climax is quite delightful however...

Again, congratulations on such a great improvement.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:57 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8529
andrew wrote:
Hi Monica, I listened to the new versions.

The prelude - I still don't think it's "big" and angry enough, but that I guess is a matter of interpretation, rather than something concrete being wrong.

The etude - definitely improved! Is it a touch faster? I'm not sure. It seems to have more of a lilting dance feel about it.


Hi Andrew. I'm so glad to see you and that you didn't write me off after my dumb post. :D
Anyway, the prelude - I recorded it right after I recorded the etude and the etude makes my RH hurt a lot. My hand felt like it was on fire while recording the prelude. But even so, I guess I am a weakling; this is the biggest sound I can make. Maybe you can just turn up your speakers? :)

The etude - yes, it is 20 seconds faster than my previous version. I'm glad to know that it sounds better now.

Affinity wrote:
Really great improvements for both pieces! The etude is definitely much less labored-sounding than your previous recording, and it flows pretty well. Like the above poster I still think your prelude is still too modest sounding, but I find your new recording more convincing than your previous one. The chords at 0:42-ish sound a bit too thin though, especially the first one, which I'm not sure if it is part of the previous phrase or not. A crescendo there might work. The climax is quite delightful however...

Again, congratulations on such a great improvement.


Thank you, Jonathan. I think some of those chords just came down differently than I had planned. But since this version came off with not too many slips, I stuck with this one. :)

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:24 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9597
Location: Netherlands
These are surely a LOT better than the previous ones. For minor niggling, in the etude you mostly lose the crisp staccato when the other voices come in. Easier said than done, I know. The prelude is still a little too timid, and the unisono passages are a bit choppy.
But all in all, these are pretty convincing (which I would not say about the first versions).

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:11 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8529
techneut wrote:
These are surely a LOT better than the previous ones. For minor niggling, in the etude you mostly lose the crisp staccato when the other voices come in. Easier said than done, I know. The prelude is still a little too timid, and the unisono passages are a bit choppy.


Thank you, Chris. Yes, I heard some choppy too. I shouldn't have recorded it after the etude. Maybe I'll have one more go at it next week when I'm stronger.

techneut wrote:
But all in all, these are pretty convincing (which I would not say about the first versions).

Why? What were you afraid of? :P

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:18 pm
Posts: 1040
Well well, the Etude now actually like Chopin. A great impovement. I just do not like this talk of hands hurting: that is not at all good. I have played my share of hair-raising stuff and my hand has never hurt.

_________________
Richard Willmer
"Please do not shoot the pianist
He is doing his best."
Oscar Wilde: Impressions of America: Leadville


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:03 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8529
richard66 wrote:
Well well, the Etude now actually like Chopin. A great impovement. I just do not like this talk of hands hurting: that is not at all good. I have played my share of hair-raising stuff and my hand has never hurt.

Thank you, Richard.
It's just the same old thing - tendonitis that I've been dealing with for years now. This particular piece hurt my RH a lot because of all the 9th intervals. There's one spot near the end that was extremely hard for me to land correctly, so I had to practice it a hundred times.

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:37 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:45 pm
Posts: 383
Location: New Jersey, USA
Well, this was a confusing stream. I'd been away for a couple of weeks (the past week due to that storm) and listened to two recordings which made sense only after reading the entire message stream (since the recordings had been reposted).

Anyway, yes, the Etude sounds fine, and I don't know what it sounded like before. And thank you for adding to the Society's repertoire.
Enough has been said about the Prelude. Due to cowardice, I've never learned the piece and don't feel like critiquing the work of someone braver than me!

Tendonitis - I'm sure you already know to use heat therapy? The beanbag you throw in the microwave and then wrap around whatever (in my case it's elbows and an injured shoulder)?? In a younger person it can be a result of an unrelaxed approach to the keyboard. In someone my age, my doctor says "You're simply wearing out, my friend." Then there's injuries... (shoveling snow without switching arms occasionally will do it).

_________________
stu kautsch


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:08 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 pm
Posts: 2003
Location: U.S.A.
Hi Monica,

I think these two numbers sound quite well played. In the prelude you feature the wonderful rhythmic drive. Maybe just a tad more power is needed there to make it even more declarative. The etude sounds like a tricky one to play given the different touches required in the RH--legato, staccato, slurs, etc. You articulate it all convincingly in my opinion. I enjoyed hearing both.

David

_________________
"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:53 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:18 pm
Posts: 1040
StuKautsch wrote:
Tendonitis - I'm sure you already know to use heat therapy? The beanbag you throw in the microwave and then wrap around whatever (in my case it's elbows and an injured shoulder)?? In a younger person it can be a result of an unrelaxed approach to the keyboard. In someone my age, my doctor says "You're simply wearing out, my friend." Then there's injuries... (shoveling snow without switching arms occasionally will do it).


Time to visit a new medicine man, if you ask me.

_________________
Richard Willmer
"Please do not shoot the pianist
He is doing his best."
Oscar Wilde: Impressions of America: Leadville


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:55 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9597
Location: Netherlands
pianolady wrote:
It's just the same old thing - tendonitis that I've been dealing with for years now. This particular piece hurt my RH a lot because of all the 9th intervals. There's one spot near the end that was extremely hard for me to land correctly, so I had to practice it a hundred times.
Given a condition like this, I'd avoid pieces that so specifically go against the grain.

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:01 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:18 pm
Posts: 1040
pianolady wrote:
richard66 wrote:
Well well, the Etude now actually like Chopin. A great impovement. I just do not like this talk of hands hurting: that is not at all good. I have played my share of hair-raising stuff and my hand has never hurt.

Thank you, Richard.
It's just the same old thing - tendonitis that I've been dealing with for years now. This particular piece hurt my RH a lot because of all the 9th intervals. There's one spot near the end that was extremely hard for me to land correctly, so I had to practice it a hundred times.


There must be something wrong with your technique. You were so forward when you thought the keys on my old groaner were uneven that I am surprised you let this pass, unless, of course, this tendonitis is not related to the piano. I had something on the top joint of the right pinky which was not related to playing, as it came at a time I was not too active practising and then would not hurt when playing. It has since vanished and all the time I have played two or three hours a day.

_________________
Richard Willmer
"Please do not shoot the pianist
He is doing his best."
Oscar Wilde: Impressions of America: Leadville


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:33 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8529
StuKautsch wrote:
Well, this was a confusing stream. I'd been away for a couple of weeks (the past week due to that storm) and listened to two recordings which made sense only after reading the entire message stream (since the recordings had been reposted).

Anyway, yes, the Etude sounds fine, and I don't know what it sounded like before. And thank you for adding to the Society's repertoire.
Enough has been said about the Prelude. Due to cowardice, I've never learned the piece and don't feel like critiquing the work of someone braver than me!

Tendonitis - I'm sure you already know to use heat therapy? The beanbag you throw in the microwave and then wrap around whatever (in my case it's elbows and an injured shoulder)?? In a younger person it can be a result of an unrelaxed approach to the keyboard. In someone my age, my doctor says "You're simply wearing out, my friend." Then there's injuries... (shoveling snow without switching arms occasionally will do it).


Thank you for listening, Stewart. And OMG, I didn't realize you were in New Jersey....what a terrible mess; I feel sorry for everybody on the east coast. I hope your power is on?

Rachfan wrote:
Hi Monica,
I think these two numbers sound quite well played. In the prelude you feature the wonderful rhythmic drive. Maybe just a tad more power is needed there to make it even more declarative. The etude sounds like a tricky one to play given the different touches required in the RH--legato, staccato, slurs, etc. You articulate it all convincingly in my opinion. I enjoyed hearing both.
David


Thank you for listening, David. I guess I should eat my Wheaties before I attempt this one again.... :)

techneut wrote:
Given a condition like this, I'd avoid pieces that so specifically go against the grain.

I know.....I was just trying to find something Chopin that we didn't already have and felt I could play this one. It wasn't so bad at first because I was just casually playing through it. The trouble started when I got serious with it.

richard66 wrote:
There must be something wrong with your technique. You were so forward when you thought the keys on my old groaner were uneven that I am surprised you let this pass, unless, of course, this tendonitis is not related to the piano. I had something on the top joint of the right pinky which was not related to playing, as it came at a time I was not too active practising and then would not hurt when playing. It has since vanished and all the time I have played two or three hours a day.


My piano is actually very well balanced. That's one of the reasons I bought it in the first place. The problem is definitely my technique. I am too tense. My last piano teacher often touched my shoulder when I was playing to remind me to relax.

But you know....talking about what hurts us.... the thing that hurts my wrists the most is painting a wall. Something about that motion just kills me. I can't paint a wall anymore.

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:44 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9597
Location: Netherlands
pianolady wrote:
The trouble started when I got serious with it.
Doesn't it always :roll:

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:18 pm
Posts: 1040
I was just reading an article about it:

http://www.pianomap.com/injuries/index.html

Four of the points there are things that I was taught:

forearm parallel to the keys
curved and not curled or straight fingers
never use wrist movement to play a note
never play a black key with the thumb or pinky if another fingering is available (that is, avoid twisting the hand).

_________________
Richard Willmer
"Please do not shoot the pianist
He is doing his best."
Oscar Wilde: Impressions of America: Leadville


Last edited by richard66 on Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:28 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8529
techneut wrote:
pianolady wrote:
The trouble started when I got serious with it.
Doesn't it always :roll:

Image


:P


richard66 wrote:
I was just reading an article about it:
http://www.pianomap.com/injuries/index.html
Thank you for the link, Richard. I'll read it soon.

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:28 am
Posts: 1250
Location: Springfield, Missouri, USA
Hi Monica,
I just listened to your recordings and commend you for your attempts. I thought the etude was delightful, if perhaps under tempo, but generally well executed and voiced -- and quite musical. The prelude did not achieve the same level as the etude for me (and for you apparently). I think that both Andrew and Joe gave you great remarks. Perhaps while you give the works time to simmer, you could continue to play them mentally with score review; this may also allow you to discover some layers/levels of the pieces that you had not seen yet. I am amazed at how much I continue to discover years later in works that I had programmed in the past.

_________________
Eddy M. del Rio, MD
"A smattering will not do. They must know all the keys, major and minor, and they must literally 'know them backwards.'" - Josef Lhevinne


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:54 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8529
Hi Eddy, and thank you for listening. I don't think I will work on the etude anymore because it hurts my hands too much. I have the prelude memorized though, so I might as well video-record it probably next weekend. I know it's not to everyone's liking (my playing it), but at least I can sort of get it out of my system then.

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:29 pm
Posts: 161
Location: Brazil
this etude is nicely played, Monica, mas it's a pitty that you didn't record the most beautiful Ab major one. =D

and you're crazy to play those crazy Chopin preludes I've always been purposely away. :lol:

_________________
Luís Sarro


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:52 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8529
Thank you, Luis. I'm not sure what mas means, but I am currently working on the one in A-flat.
I'm not sure what to do about this prelude. Some days it goes pretty well, and then the next day it doesn't. I still have a goal to video-record it....just have to catch a good day. :wink:

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chopin - Trois Nouvelles Etude no. 3 and Prelude 28-18
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:29 pm
Posts: 161
Location: Brazil
'mas' = 'BUT', in portuguese.

Can't believe I thought in portuguese while writing here. :lol:

_________________
Luís Sarro


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 43 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group