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 Post subject: Haydn Sonata in D Major, Hob. XVI/33
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:23 am 
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Location: Connecticut, USA
Hello,

Another sonata in my Haydn repertoire recording project. An oft-neglected but IMO delightful early/middle sonata. The first movement exhibits a characteristically Haydnesque ebullience and affability, while the second is one of the more wholeheartedly romantic of the composer's middle movements. The lack of tonic resolution at the end of the Adagio actually represents an attaca into the third movement minuet, but since they are recorded on separate tracks, I guess the ears will have to hold the thought :P

Thanks for listening,

Joe

Haydn - Sonata in D major, Hob. XVI Nr. 33, I: Allegro

Haydn - Sonata in D major, Hob. XVI Nr. 33, II: Adagio

Haydn - Sonata in D major, Hob. XVI Nr. 33, III: Tempo di Minuetto

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Last edited by jlr43 on Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:27 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Haydn Sonata in D Major, Hob. XVI/33
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:21 am 
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Once again excellent playing. Better yet IMO than the previous one. I sense that ornaments don't come easily on your instrument. What make was it again ? Not the digital you use for your Youtube recordings I think ? (BTW do fix that camera angle....)

I noted two strange rhythmic glitches in the first mvt at 1:22 and 3:00 but I don't have the score here so maybe it is what Haydn intended.
The last part of the Minuet is nice but IMO the closing chords are too loud and assertive.

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 Post subject: Re: Haydn Sonata in D Major, Hob. XVI/33
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:19 pm 
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Very nice and clean, Joe. I like how every note is spot-on and you remain so steady. Do you record with a metronmoe?

I agree about the camera angle. Sort of strange. Also, why do you make videos on a digital anyway? They would be much more impressive on an acoustic grand. You look a little sad in this setup.

Chris, I can put these up later.

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 Post subject: Re: Haydn Sonata in D Major, Hob. XVI/33
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:49 pm 
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Thanks for listening, Chris and Monica.

Quote:
I sense that ornaments don't come easily on your instrument. What make was it again ?


It's a Steinway Concert B (7 foot, next size down from the 9-foot D). The piano is nice and even now that the action has been redone (three years ago), but the new action is quite heavy. We talked to the technician about possibly lightening it, but he said that could hurt the repeating mechanism (funny, since that can be difficult anyway because of the heaviness :P ). I like therefore that the ornaments generally sound even (and I've worked fairly hard on trills in the past), but sometimes a note or two doesn't sound quite come out the way I like. It may be a problem too just with the modern piano in general, there being so many ornaments in these earlier Haydn sonatas (later on, he uses many fewer trills and the ones he does employ tend to be more pianistic).

Quote:
I noted two strange rhythmic glitches in the first mvt at 1:22 and 3:00 but I don't have the score here so maybe it is what Haydn intended.


You're right. I rush the last beat of the left hand against the right hand cadential trills. I've noted that too as a bad habit of mine in the past with Mozart and Haydn. I'll keep that more in mind for future.

Quote:
I like how every note is spot-on and you remain so steady. Do you record with a metronmoe?


Thanks, Monica. I never record with a metronome and don't generally practice with one, although I do find the metronome very useful for reining in certain passages. Sometimes when I initially record something, my tendency is to rush, and so in relistening and rethinking, I'll use the metronome to check the passage or movement in question. I find this particularly useful with Bach, etudes, and classic-period music, where IMO the overall rhythmic focus is on an exact pulse.

Quote:
I agree about the camera angle. Sort of strange. Also, why do you make videos on a digital anyway? They would be much more impressive on an acoustic grand. You look a little sad in this setup.


I'm a newbie (started this year) at video recording, so I'm not sure how to record an acoustic and get good sound (my Sony digital camera has IMO great picture but poor sound). The basic good thing about recording the digial is that it's easy :P I just record directly into the computer on Audacity and then I sync up the video and audio on my video editing program. Regarding the camera itself, it's on a tripod perched on my desk, which is next to my computer and of course has a lot of other crap on it :D. Anyway, any advice either of you has about angle or getting good audio sound with an acoustic setup or anything video-related would of course be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Joe

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 Post subject: Re: Haydn Sonata in D Major, Hob. XVI/33
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:12 am 
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Hi Joe

I just listened to the sonata. The first movement has that Haydnesque exuberance for sure. I especially liked the quiet Adagio--beautiful! While listening to the Minuet, at 2:28 it almost sounds as though the mic position was changed. It seemed like a shift of balanced R-L volume levels toward a right channel bias there. Anyway, it's easy to tell that you have an affinity for this music, not only from the fact that you've studied all these sonatas, but more from the care you take in performing these works. Very fine playing, Joe.

David

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 Post subject: Re: Haydn Sonata in D Major, Hob. XVI/33
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:23 am 
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Thanks very much for listening, David. I'm glad you liked it. On my present project, I have six of the sonatas done (recorded over the past couple of months) Of course, I don't want to overload listeners -- or overwork the admins :lol: So i've so far been submitting one every week or so. I'm glad that my enthusiasm for Haydn, who has always been my favorite of the "Big Three" classical composers, continues to show thus far.

Thanks, too, for pointing out that glitch. Something happened with the balance in post-processing it appears. I fiddled with it a bit and reattached above (actually ended up reattaching all three movements so that the minuet would appear last) and think I improved it (?).

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 Post subject: Re: Haydn Sonata in D Major, Hob. XVI/33
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:52 am 
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Ok, these are up, Joe. Regarding video recording tips: I have two cameras and both of them do not have good sound (I'd like to get a new camera one of these days)(but even so, I doubt a camera would give that great of a sound anyway), so I record with the camera and also my Edirol recorder. Then swap out the camera audio with the Edirol file in the post-processing. The camera angle is askew in your videos - like you intentionally made it look crooked. All you have to do is set your camera at a level so that you don't cut off your head and then look thru the lens to see if the image is level.

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 Post subject: Re: Haydn Sonata in D Major, Hob. XVI/33
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:40 am 
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Hi Joe,

That spot sounds pretty much the same to me, but in the scheme of things, it's not enough of a glitch to be a detractor. I wouldn't worry about it.

David

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 Post subject: Re: Haydn Sonata in D Major, Hob. XVI/33
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:48 pm 
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Hi,

Could you replace the versions on the site with these? I think I've fixed that spot David was talking about and I made a couple of other small edits as well to the other two movements. Sorry for the inconvenience. I generally try not to make a habit of this so soon after submitting, but am not always successful :)

Thanks,

Joe

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 Post subject: Re: Haydn Sonata in D Major, Hob. XVI/33
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:34 am 
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Very nice to hear this. I think Haydn is shamefully neglected by most pianists. I particularly enjoyed the rhythmic aspects and sense of dialogue between phrases in the first movement. Throughout, the playing is distinguished by commendable attention to articulation and clarity: excellent!


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 Post subject: Re: Haydn Sonata in D Major, Hob. XVI/33
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:32 am 
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Ok, I've replaced the files. The links at the top of this thread are your new files.

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 Post subject: Re: Haydn Sonata in D Major, Hob. XVI/33
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:10 pm 
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Quote:
I think Haydn is shamefully neglected by most pianists.


Yes. I was surprised to see that there weren't more Haydn sonatas on the site (given that there are over 50 after all :P ) Haydn may be less immediate in some ways than Mozart and Beethoven, but for me it's generally fresher and more novel (at least the keyboard works).

Thanks very much for listening, Andrew.

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 Post subject: Re: Haydn Sonata in D Major, Hob. XVI/33
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:12 pm 
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Quote:
Ok, I've replaced the files. The links at the top of this thread are your new files.


Thanks, Monica.

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 Post subject: Re: Haydn Sonata in D Major, Hob. XVI/33
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:00 pm 
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Nice recording! I do love this sonata and am about to take it into the studio myself in a couple of weeks.

May I ask a question about the ornaments in the score you're working from? I have a variety of mordents, inverted mordents, and turns that sound different from yours. For example, at the beginning of the development section of the 1st mvt I have in the RH melody: turn, inverted mordent, inverted mordent, turn. Sounds like you have trill, inverted mordent, inverted mordent, trill.
Actually, the other spot that sounded odd to me was also trills instead of turns--in the 8 bars before the repeat I have several turns which sound like trills in your recording.
What edition do you have?

thanks from another student of the brilliant Haydn!
hreichgott

PS I am aware that ornamentation can often be very individual and up to the performer, but my understanding is that for Haydn I should be very specific about which ornaments to use.


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 Post subject: Re: Haydn Sonata in D Major, Hob. XVI/33
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:12 pm 
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Hello hreichgott and thanks for listening.

Quote:
May I ask a question about the ornaments in the score you're working from? I have a variety of mordents, inverted mordents, and turns that sound different from yours. For example, at the beginning of the development section of the 1st mvt I have in the RH melody: turn, inverted mordent, inverted mordent, turn. Sounds like you have trill, inverted mordent, inverted mordent, trill.
Actually, the other spot that sounded odd to me was also trills instead of turns--in the 8 bars before the repeat I have several turns which sound like trills in your recording.
What edition do you have?


I use the Schott Universal Wiener Urtext edition and I do have the same markings as yours. Regarding the turns at the conclusion of the exposition, I do play turns and begin them on the upper-neighbor notes (the C# and F#). For the ones at the beginning of the development, I play turns also but begin them on the principal note. I double-checked just to make sure I was playing turns but it could also be they're not as clear as they should be :P

Quote:
PS I am aware that ornamentation can often be very individual and up to the performer, but my understanding is that for Haydn I should be very specific about which ornaments to use.


I think that's true -- to a point. On the modern piano, since the number of ornaments are quite challenging in Haydn and Scarlatti, for example, ornaments are often left out altogether depending on the instrument and performer. Or sometimes they are shortened, which I think is also fine depending on context (I do try to be a purist, though, and do all the ones indicated even given the heaviness of the action). What I find to be one of the most important issues in playing ornaments in classic-period music, though, is the melodic direction. They should fit in with the melodic line as if the ornament wasn't there at all and should not distract from the melodic flow, which is why I will begin certain of them on the principal note and certain on the upper note.

I hope this helps. Good luck with your own recording and thanks again for listening.

Joe

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