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 Post subject: Chopin No. 2 Op. 10 - has anyone played?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:08 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:00 am
Posts: 5
Location: Tallinn, Estonia
I am practising it.
It has already developled my 3,4,5 finger a lot. And I like the study.
But still it seems to me that it needs some time to get ripe and start to come out in tempo.
What are your experiences.
Any tips, ideas and other information are highly suggested and welcome :)

Thanks in advance,
Jaak


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 Post subject: Re: Chopin No. 2 Op. 10 - has anyone played?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:41 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:35 am
Posts: 1418
Location: Gulfport, MS, USA
I have been working on it for a long time, and it's still at around 80-100. It's hard to make myself practice this one often enough to really increase the tempo; other etudes are much more interesting to me.

My only tips: hunt down Chopin's fingerings. There is a copy of the first page of Chopin's corrections in Eigeldinger. Mikuli has some rather weird cheater fingerings - the sort of fingerings that come from being good enough that you don't need to use the right fingerings.

_________________
"Z Czernym poznałem się na panie brat—na dwa fortepiana często z nim u niego grywałem. Dobry człowiek, ale nic więcej..." - Fryderyk Chopin


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 Post subject: Re: Chopin No. 2 Op. 10 - has anyone played?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:22 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:28 am
Posts: 1250
Location: Springfield, Missouri, USA
Terez wrote:
My only tips: hunt down Chopin's fingerings. There is a copy of the first page of Chopin's corrections in Eigeldinger. Mikuli has some rather weird cheater fingerings - the sort of fingerings that come from being good enough that you don't need to use the right fingerings.

I disagree with the premise of this statement and offer a different opinion. Fingering is partly a personal matter, because what is good for the anatomy of one person's hand is not necessarily the same for another person's hand. I would say that one should consider any given fingering, and that there are certain principles which apply in most cases, but there is no "right" fingering that should be used by everyone. Fingering is entirely artificial to music. One never listens to a passage and thinks fingerings. The important thing is for a pianist to have been taught good principles (which is not a sure thing) and to have been demonstrated (by their good teacher(s)) sufficient examples of the applications of such principles such that they develop good principles themselves. It is a sad situation if a pianist depends solely on the fingerings indicated in a score; that would seem to suggest a certain lack of skill and development. Consider for a moment that one can buy several different authoratative editions of Chopin's works and they will not have the same fingerings! Or, you can watch and compare the performances of several world class concert artists performing the same work, and the performances will demonstrate different approaches to the score, including fingering and even which hand is playing what. (This is difficult to appreciate unless you are intimately knowledgable with the work in question). I will agree with Terez to the degree that one can have developed such principles to the degree that other approaches may seem horrible, or "cheater" fingerings, but I have NEVER totally played the exact fingering in a score no matter whose it was. There was (and is) always some refinement that I find to be more efficient and/or effective. You, jaggens, should seek the same. BTW, one of the most effective practicing techniques you can do (after having selected an efficient fingering) is to practice the RH in rhythms. A few to apply as a pattern for the four 16th notes per beat: long-short-long-short, short-long-short-long, 8th-triplet 16ths; 16th triplet-8th; Then in triplet rhythm: two 16ths-8th-8th, 8th-two 16ths-8th, 8th-8th-two 16ths. This will systematically reveal every weakness and difficulty and give it the focused work it needs. Good luck!

Eddy

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Eddy M. del Rio, MD
"A smattering will not do. They must know all the keys, major and minor, and they must literally 'know them backwards.'" - Josef Lhevinne


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 Post subject: Re: Chopin No. 2 Op. 10 - has anyone played?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:35 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:35 am
Posts: 1418
Location: Gulfport, MS, USA
musical-md wrote:
Terez wrote:
My only tips: hunt down Chopin's fingerings. There is a copy of the first page of Chopin's corrections in Eigeldinger. Mikuli has some rather weird cheater fingerings - the sort of fingerings that come from being good enough that you don't need to use the right fingerings.

I disagree with the premise of this statement

I didn't say he should use Chopin's fingerings, but that he should hunt them down. Chopin's fingerings are designed to make things easier, and you can't find them in most cheap editions because people have put their own personal fingerings in. I brought it up because it actually occurred to me while working on 10/2 out of Mikuli that an alternate fingering would be easier, but I was reluctant to use it because I worried it wouldn't work at tempo. The fact that Chopin himself recommended the fingering I came up with settled those doubts.

_________________
"Z Czernym poznałem się na panie brat—na dwa fortepiana często z nim u niego grywałem. Dobry człowiek, ale nic więcej..." - Fryderyk Chopin


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 Post subject: Re: Chopin No. 2 Op. 10 - has anyone played?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:26 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:28 am
Posts: 1250
Location: Springfield, Missouri, USA
Terez wrote:
I didn't say he should use Chopin's fingerings, but that he should hunt them down.
And then what? Have them stuffed and mounted by a taxidermist? :lol:

Terez wrote:
Chopin's fingerings are designed to make things easier
Perhaps for his hand (and yours), but not necessarily for everyone's

BTW, you can see the death cast of his LH at the following. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cast_of_Chopin's_hand.JPG

_________________
Eddy M. del Rio, MD
"A smattering will not do. They must know all the keys, major and minor, and they must literally 'know them backwards.'" - Josef Lhevinne


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