Here's the thing. There has never been a composer who always stuck with conventions. The way I see it is, there is a difference between being creative and being provocative. Creativity does not have to shock anybody or be way out of form. Its just a clever, controlled excursion from the norm.

Even Bach, who is often seen as the epitome of Baroque musical conventions, sometimes pushed the boundaries of the Baroque period with occasionally peculiar chords and rhythms. But it's all subtle creativity to hold your attention and keep you from losing interest, but not enough to shock.

When I was thinking of those Goya etchings, I wasn't even thinking (or remembering) when he lived. I checked it out and he was actually born 10 years before Mozart. Though the artist as social conscience attitude was identified with Goya and that time period, it could have had its inception before that time, as you touch upon about Mozart's choice of some of his librettos and the manner in which he wrote the music for them. Had Mozart lived, might he have evolved in a similar direction? Was there something in the 18th cent. enlightenment air that was leading artists in that direction by the early 19th cent.?

Scott

I must say when I come across a piece of "art" that is shocking, agressive, ugly and provocative, my reaction is to look elsewhere. It does not provoke me: it merely disgusts me. We have the press to shock us, to show us people being killed or whatnot. Must art also do it? To what avail? We need art to relax, not to shock us. Somehow I do not like being slapped on the face and having my nose rubbed in the mud.

One of the reasons why I find myself enjoying music more and more, moving away from novels and the cinema, is that, as an abstact art, the only truly abstact one, is that it is pefectly possible to enjoy oneself without having people fighling, stripping, killing or yelling **** words. I have enough of this just opening my window in the morning without wishing to have more.

A different kind of 'hate' but I just have to get something off my chest:

I hate when people say "enjoy" when they are submitting a recording. It's like they assume/think their playing is so great and that we are so fortunate because we get to listen to their great recording....

I wish members would stop that!!

To disrupt the self-indulgence in such posts, one should state instead, "Not bad, for Jerry's kids." I may have said that about me on an occasion. Hey, those who can't laugh at themselves, leave the job to others! Reminds me of the Polaner All-Fruit commercial years ago - at a formal formal table, the guy blurts out in a twang, "Could you please pass the jelly." The lady of residence almost passes out in disgust over the faux pas.

Hates:
Erik Satie - Gymnopedie in particular. The most over-rated composer of all time! There is more music contained in 30 measures of rests.
WCRB - Our only classical station. Daily broadcasts contain some of most innocuous music ever written. I have to switch to CDs in the office - even the patients complain about the selection of music on the station.

I think I've written that on occasion. But it was really a hope that people would enjoy the music (which would have been new to the site), not my playing per se - which would have been adequate at best.

Oops, guilty as charged, sorry.

But seriously, why post anything if noone's going to enjoy listening? Either the performance is good enough that it's musically enjoyable to listen to, or else people can enjoy picking on the faults...but if there's nothing to enjoy, then we're wasting our time.

When one submits a recording one hopes it will be enjoyed, but when one is asking others to judge it, it is not appropriate to say in so many words: "This is very good what I am playing and you are going to like it!"

Now, imagine at a piano competition, one of the participiants tells the jurors, "Enjoy my performance!"

I would be surprised if this competitor would even be allowed to play.

Ok, I feel better now....

@George - try an internet classical radio station. I listen to one all the time while I'm at work (except right now I've got classic rock playing). Here is one I use most:

http://www.accuradio.com/


You can choose many different genres and even specify particular instruments. There is a short commercial every now and then but it lasts only about 5 seconds.

Just added to Favorites! Thanks Monica.

RadioIO.com is good too, I listen to their classical channel at work sometimes. They play real interesting things sometimes (many items from the Naxos catalog, I guess they may be sponsored by them). Their ads are really obnoxious when they come on, but that's not so often luckily. I find that other internet stations are rather unadventurous and stick to classics-for-the-millions repertoire.

OMG - James Galway just came on at accuradio.com - I'm outta here. And back to Pet Hates again

Right now is Kiri Te Kanawa. Imagine that, a Japanese Opera singer!

Thanks Monica and Chris, I'll save those sites. I am tired of listening to the same CDs too. I have a sound system for the office, so I may have to go with the internet radio route and connect it. I have a C.Crane WiFi radio in the box. I should bring it to the office, this way I won't have to tie up a computer.

This annoys me too. I usually don't listen when the person says that. Of course, I'm probably annoying on the opposite end by prefacing my recordings with 'this really sucks'. I started a fight on Piano World by doing that. (I don't think I will post there any more; the members are annoying and the admins are juvenile.) But I wouldn't submit something in the audition room if I thought it sucked. That's why I haven't submitted anything yet...

As for dissonance in music...I dislike Mozart for lack of dissonance. I dislike most of the 20th century for the idea that, in order for music to progress, it must become more dissonant. I hate that philosophy.

That hasn't stopped me! Actually, though, I didn't think a particular recording of mine sucked that much until some time had passed and then I'd listen to it again. That's why I have to do so much re-recording, I guess. It's pretty discouraging and I've often felt like giving up. But since that crappy recording is out there in cyberspace, I really have to try for a better recording.

~I just thought of another 'hate' too - Boulez' music.