Piano Society
Free Classical Keyboard Recordings
It is currently Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:43 pm

All times are UTC - 1 hour




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: a little help, please...
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:10 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8411
Thanks, Scott. That's funny about the 'extensive research...' :lol:

I just practiced the piece and find that I like to play at 60 or even 55. But that's probably because I can't play the piece that well yet.... :wink: And I surprised myself when I got to the last line and my left hand naturally went under my right hand. :shock: Wow - how do you guys know all this? I didn't even tell you the name of the piece, yet you all know it!

I do think I'm going to have some pedaling issues to deal with again. I know Debussy is supposed to be played with lots of pedal, but I don't want to blur the neat rhythm in this piece.

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: a little help, please...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 4:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:14 pm
Posts: 167
Location: Canada
Hi Monica

Regarding the crossing of your hands and what Scott suggests, that is how I played the ending in my recording on the site here. So.........the ONLY thing that the RH played was the long chord. The LH played the high stuff just before the chord and then all the low habanera stuff.

When it comes to pedalling, I did a lot of research before recording Debussy and ended up finding out so many things that were contrary to how we often think that his music should be played. I discovered from the old writings of Debussy and of his immediate students, written during their time and in their native language of French, that it turns out that our modern idea of pedalling almost every note of Debussy is not what he, himself, ever wanted. Apparently, he had even curmudgeonly stated that his theory was that those who pedalled constantly were doing it to hide their bad technique! Anyway, it's a long time since I did my research, so I won't try to cite sources, but will just leave you with that and wish you lots of fun with this great piece!
-Nicole


Last edited by Nicole on Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: a little help, please...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:14 pm
Posts: 477
Location: Illinois
Monica,

A couple of resources that might help in working out the pedaling are http://djupdal.org/karstein/debussy/ Which has research into statements by Debussy and his contemporaries about his piano playing, including his pedaling.

Another is a book published by Indiana University Press -- "The Pianist's Guide to Pedaling" by Joseph Banowetz. It used to be available on-line at the IU Press website but it seems to have been removed. In it there is a large variety of pedal techniques plus articles on pedaling the music of selected composers, including Debussy and Ravel.

Scott


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: a little help, please...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:36 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 1:11 am
Posts: 243
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Nicole wrote:
When it comes to pedalling, I did a lot of research before recording Debussy and ended up finding out so many things that were contrary to how we often think that his music should be played. I discovered from the old writings of Debussy and of his immediate students, written during their time and in their native language of French, that it turns out that our modern idea of pedalling almost every note of Debussy is not what he, himself, ever wanted.

True. But it's important to remember that modern pianos are very different fron the pianos of Debussy's time. If you pedal the same way, you don't actually get the same sounds; on a modern piano you'll need to (half-)change the pedal a little more often.

_________________
Alexander Hanysz, http://hanysz.net


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: a little help, please...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:59 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:14 pm
Posts: 477
Location: Illinois
How much different would Debussy's piano be than our modern instruments? The piano was basically in its present form by the end of the 19th century. Debussy's earliest works date from the 1880's ("Danse bohémienne" and "L'enfant prodigue", his Prix de Rome winning composition. The ones that we think of come from the 1890s, when he was finding his own style, the one that we call "Impressionism".

Scott


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: a little help, please...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:16 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8411
Hi Nicole, Great to see you again!! Thank you so much for that information. Interesting and funny about using too much pedal to cover up bad technique. I really like that!

@Scott - thanks for the link. It also looks very interesting and I'll start reading more of it maybe tomorrow when I'm at work.

@Alexander and Scott - Interesting notion about comparing pianos. We know that Chopin's piano was a lot different than our pianos today, but it would be interesting to know how or if our pianos are much different from Debussy's. A nice little research project, I think, if someone wants to look into this subject and let us know...? :idea:

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: a little help, please...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:12 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:28 am
Posts: 1250
Location: Springfield, Missouri, USA
I went to start looking at the idea of Debussy's piano (probably a Pleyel) when I came across Grovlez.
from Oscar Thompson's Debussy: Man and Artist, note on page 267: "Grovlez incorportated the Danse de Puck [Preludes Book 1] in his Antre des gnomes, produced in 1920. Regarding the prelude, General Lavine -- eccentric, from Preludes Book 2 note, on pg. 269: "Another of the Debussy Preludes orchestrated by Grovlez for L'Antre des gnomes." Then a note on the same page for the prelude Ondine, "Also transcribed for orchestra by Grovlez."

Then from an old 3rd edition of Grove's DMM, sv Grovlez: "... obtained the first piano-prize at the Paris Conservatoire (Diemer), ..."

I could add this to the Wiki article on him but rather hope that Chris use it (if he wants) for the PS bio that is linked to at Wiki.

Nothing on Debussy's piano. I went looking to see If I had something with a picture of him seated at a piano, which might reveal something, but have no such pictures.

_________________
Eddy M. del Rio, MD
"A smattering will not do. They must know all the keys, major and minor, and they must literally 'know them backwards.'" - Josef Lhevinne


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: a little help, please...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:09 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 1:11 am
Posts: 243
Location: Adelaide, Australia
RSPIll wrote:
How much different would Debussy's piano be than our modern instruments? The piano was basically in its present form by the end of the 19th century.

A friend of mine has a 1908 Steinway and a modern Bösendorfer side by side in their living room. It was a fascinating experience to sit and play the two alternately. And I had the chance to do some concerts on an 1890s Broadwood too. Yes, the basic design principles of the instrument haven't changed. But the touch, tone quality and resonance is still a world apart. It's hard to put these things into words precisely, but I can assure you there's a huge difference--technology has kept moving during the past 100 years.

_________________
Alexander Hanysz, http://hanysz.net


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: a little help, please...
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:58 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8411
@Eddy - nothing on Debussy's piano? Well, maybe something will turn up later. The Grovlez info - so in addition to being a composer and conductor, he was also an arranger which is why he had done something on Granados' opera too. Interesting!

@Alexander - that friend of yours must have a very large living room! I bet it really was very interesting comparing the two pianos!!

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: a little help, please...
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:17 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9479
Location: Netherlands
musical-md wrote:
I went to start looking at the idea of Debussy's piano (probably a Pleyel) when I came across Grovlez.
from Oscar Thompson's Debussy: Man and Artist, note on page 267: "Grovlez incorportated the Danse de Puck [Preludes Book 1] in his Antre des gnomes, produced in 1920. Regarding the prelude, General Lavine -- eccentric, from Preludes Book 2 note, on pg. 269: "Another of the Debussy Preludes orchestrated by Grovlez for L'Antre des gnomes." Then a note on the same page for the prelude Ondine, "Also transcribed for orchestra by Grovlez."

Then from an old 3rd edition of Grove's DMM, sv Grovlez: "... obtained the first piano-prize at the Paris Conservatoire (Diemer), ..."

I could add this to the Wiki article on him but rather hope that Chris use it (if he wants) for the PS bio that is linked to at Wiki.

That is useful info, thanks ! Yes I'll certainly add that to the bio, or rather the meager scrap of text that goes for a bio.

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group