Piano Society
Free Classical Keyboard Recordings
It is currently Sat Aug 30, 2014 5:16 am

All times are UTC - 1 hour




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Arpeggio perfection
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:42 pm
Posts: 9
i can't play fast arpeggio very well, especially in white key (for me, it's very hard to play fast arpeggio in C Major, F Major, and G Major)...is there any suggestion for practicing fast arpeggio?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arpeggio perfection
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 7:50 am
Posts: 9
Chopin wasn't concerned if they were not legato - it's the timing that matters.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arpeggio perfection
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:42 pm
Posts: 9
but my finger always make a mistake when i reached 3rd octave...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arpeggio perfection
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 7:50 am
Posts: 9
I think it's a memory thing - go slower but also realize for the body the notes are in a very different place three octaves up.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arpeggio perfection
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 4:17 pm
Posts: 418
Location: Boston
Practice ff, and equalize the weakest fingers as much as possible by strengthening regimens. That means the 4th and 5th fingers. Keep fingers curved, not curled. For R.H. arpeggios, make sure the wrist is straight with your arm, so no angled wrists, and after you play the thumb, place it under immediately after the note is played, and maintain it there until you play it again. You will see that the thumb will be right on the note as you go C E G C' E' G' C'' etc. This way you can go very fast. Don't skip notes until you play the next note, it will serve to stabilize and give you a point of reference. In other words, don't remove the thumb until you play the 2nd finger; don't remove the 2nd finger until you play the 3rd finger; and don't remove the 3rd finger until you play the thumb on the second octave, etc... This will prevent you from producing hiccups in motion and sound and produce a uniform arpeggio. Simultaneously the hand should move as fast to keep pace with the notes in the direction of motion.

Practice arpeggios with a nickel coin on top of your hand. If the coin falls off, then you're not doing it correctly. Good Luck!

_________________
"Nobility of spirit has more to do with simplicity than ostentation, wisdom rather than wealth, commitment rather than ambition." ~Riccardo Muti


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arpeggio perfection
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 7:50 am
Posts: 9
88man wrote:
and don't remove the 3rd finger until you play the thumb on the second octave, etc...
Chopin is saying don't worry about that, just get the movements smooth.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arpeggio perfection
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 3:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 4:17 pm
Posts: 418
Location: Boston
88man:
Quote:
... and don't remove the 3rd finger until you play the thumb on the second octave, etc...

keyboarclass:
Quote:
Chopin is saying don't worry about that, just get the movements smooth.
That's a contradiction for almost all hands except for Chopin who had the most supple of fingers. The poster said that he/she can't predictably play arpeggios fast on white keys beyond the 2nd octave. That leads me to indicate a consistency issue in technique because the stretch is more wider on all white keys, it's more difficult to play an arpeggio more smoothly.

If you don't worry about holding the 3rd finger at all, or remove the 3rd finger too soon, not only you'll get a hiccup, but you'll miss the note because your hand is already in motion, and you might slide pass the note and hit a crack in a multi-octave passage. There is no way to play an arpeggio fast, smoothly, and consistently, both dynamically and rhythmically, if one doesn't try to at least "think legato" in execution. And if you hop from the 3rd to the 1st finger, one is unintentionally liable to play an triplet of ascending chord triads; Even worse, to get a quartet of 16th notes rhythmically now becomes more difficult.

Surely one's not going to hold the 3rd finger in position as long as the 1st or 2nd finger, but just enough to have the thumb either on or very near the position of the right note; Treat it like a pivot without rotation to stabilize the hand in position to transition the 3rd finger to the thumb. This all happens very fast and what I am saying is in super slow-motion.

Every millimeter in motion will make a difference, and I believe the secret lies in the pulling the thumb under the fingers as much as possible toward the intended note without disrupting the transition between the notes both dynamically and rhythmically.

_________________
"Nobility of spirit has more to do with simplicity than ostentation, wisdom rather than wealth, commitment rather than ambition." ~Riccardo Muti


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arpeggio perfection
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 7:50 am
Posts: 9
That seems fair enough. According to Mikuli 'evenness of scales (arpeggios)...above all on a constant sideways movement of the hands...continuous and even-flowing rather than in steps,'


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arpeggio perfection
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:35 am
Posts: 1418
Location: Gulfport, MS, USA
Listen to 88man - he plays arpeggios beautifully. :lol: As is evidenced by his recording of this waltz.

Edited because I gave the wrong link. :oops:

_________________
"Z Czernym poznałem się na panie brat—na dwa fortepiana często z nim u niego grywałem. Dobry człowiek, ale nic więcej..." - Fryderyk Chopin


Last edited by Terez on Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arpeggio perfection
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:30 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9526
Location: Netherlands
Terez wrote:
Listen to 88man - he plays arpeggios beautifully. :lol: As is evidenced by his recording of this waltz.

Huh :?
So that's where you hang around :P

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arpeggio perfection
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:35 am
Posts: 1418
Location: Gulfport, MS, USA
techneut wrote:
Terez wrote:
Listen to 88man - he plays arpeggios beautifully. :lol: As is evidenced by his recording of this waltz.

Huh :?
So that's where you hang around :P

lol, wat? I just listened to George's Chopin (cause you know I hardly listen to anything else but Bach) for the first time about a week ago when he introduced himself to me. Because you never quite know a pianist until you hear them play. :lol:

_________________
"Z Czernym poznałem się na panie brat—na dwa fortepiana często z nim u niego grywałem. Dobry człowiek, ale nic więcej..." - Fryderyk Chopin


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arpeggio perfection
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 10:37 pm
Posts: 45
Terez wrote:
techneut wrote:
Terez wrote:
Listen to 88man - he plays arpeggios beautifully. :lol: As is evidenced by his recording of this waltz.

Huh :?
So that's where you hang around :P

lol, wat? I just listened to George's Chopin (cause you know I hardly listen to anything else but Bach) for the first time about a week ago when he introduced himself to me. Because you never quite know a pianist until you hear them play. :lol:


I found this "Mat throwing dice with blood streaming down his face, the wide brim of his hat pulled low so she could not see his wound, while Thom Merrilin put his hand into a fire to draw out the small blue stone that now dangled on Moiraine's forehead."

But... no waltz. x D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arpeggio perfection
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:56 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9526
Location: Netherlands
Haha indeed, no waltzes to be found there :P

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arpeggio perfection
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:35 am
Posts: 1418
Location: Gulfport, MS, USA
ahhh, wrong link. :D I will fix it. Not that I'm really hiding at Theoryland; I even got Nathan to join, not that he posted much. He named his kids after WoT characters (the littlest is named Moiraine, I do believe). :wink: I think we had a conversation about it on the General forum once.

_________________
"Z Czernym poznałem się na panie brat—na dwa fortepiana często z nim u niego grywałem. Dobry człowiek, ale nic więcej..." - Fryderyk Chopin


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arpeggio perfection
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 10:37 pm
Posts: 45
Terez wrote:
Listen to 88man - he plays arpeggios beautifully. :lol: As is evidenced by his recording of this waltz.

Edited because I gave the wrong link. :oops:


:shock:

Wonderful recording of that waltz, it makes me want to go practice mine a LOT more. I know you're supposed to play the first arpeggio slowly, and then the following two very quickly(I think it's the difference between triplets and 16ths?), but his hand teleported up 2 octaves or something.

Err, yeah. Listen to 88man on the arpeggio thing :P


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group