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 Post subject: Clementi
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:30 pm 
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I have always loved to play these little Sonatinas. But I have never had any audience with critical listening ears to tell me if I'm ok or not. Here is the Number 6.

Admin edit: Replaced attachments with live links:
Clementi - Sonatine Op.36 No.6 - 1 : Allegro con spirito
Clementi - Sonatine Op.36 No.6 - 2 : Rondo: Allegro spiritoso


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:38 pm 
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I admit to a soft spot for these Sonatinas too (in fact for Clementi in general). Though I think I've only played the first of these as a kid. Very good and charming music from a superb craftsman, never mind Mozart's vitriolic sneering at him.

Played with your sincere style and firm touch, this is a great listen. The sixteenths are generally not as smooth as they should be. And your staccato's are a bit sticky - I you were to play them a bit sharper it may all sound a bit more playful and airy. The rondo seems a mite too slow - Allegretto but without the Spritoso. In a couple of places you insert a rather long pause/fermata between sections where none was indicated (well I'm looking at a computer typeset score so I could be wrong about that) and in one bar (I think it was bar 76 of mvt.1) you play one chord too many. Apart from one unfortunate fumble, hardly a note out of place, well done !

I think these would be great to have on the site, as so many students play them and recordings are scarce if they exist at all. Seems like all pedagogically-oriented pieces are doing really well in the statistics. Apart from that, the music is worth it.

We could put this one up, or do you want to brush it up a little first ? Any plans for the others ? I'm a stickler for complete sets :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:00 pm 
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Location: Obamanation, unfortunately...
How cute! Reminds me of a the few piano recitals I have been in. There is always a student usually not big enough to reach the pedals who plays the first movement of the first sonatina. The audience always goes "awww" once the student walks to the piano. :lol:

I don't have the sheet music for this unfortunately. I can hear how Clementi set the standard which Beethoven picked up on and is given all the credit. If it wasn't for Clementi, I doubt Beethoven would be as great.

So yes, when are you going to play all of them? I learned one thing that if I am going to submit something I must submit everything. :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:18 pm 
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juufa72 wrote:
I don't have the sheet music for this unfortunately.

Neither did I but it's on SMA.

juufa72 wrote:
I learned one thing that if I am going to submit something I must submit everything. :wink:

Eventually, yes .... you getting on with that AFTY or what ?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:32 pm 
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i have the score with me...

technical section=

the first one. at 48sec and 1m 12 pay more attetion. The finsh chord could be a bit loud and brigter.

Try to play the lh more firmly, as some notes was little to short(1/16).

The second one....same, the lh 6 notes of 1/16 needs more control.

Artistic expression = more p at the start and build up towards the peak f and drops off.p

Ok I better shut up now.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:18 pm 
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Location: Obamanation, unfortunately...
techneut wrote:
Eventually, yes .... you getting on with that AFTY or what ?


The Doll's Burial and The Old French Tune are giving me trouble :evil:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:57 am 
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techneut wrote:
In a couple of places you insert a rather long pause/fermata between sections where none was indicated (well I'm looking at a computer typeset score so I could be wrong about that) and in one bar (I think it was bar 76 of mvt.1) you play one chord too many.


I have fermatas in my score, but I think I may hold slightly too long in some of the spots. As to the chords in bar 76, this is a weird thing. For a long time, I have played it is a single C-sharp followed by the two chords. But out of the blue, two days ago, I saw in my music, (same as the one I've always used) that it shows three chords. (I'm attaching a picture of this so you don't think I'm making it up). I did, however, see on the copy at sheet music archives, that it shows just the two chords. So I don't know...I played it one way for so long, and then I recently changed it, but I think I like to the old way better. I liked this piece until today, now I'm sick of it. But I'm going to sleep on it, and see if tomorrow I feel up to re-recording everything.
Quote:
I'm a stickler for complete sets

I'm not. :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:58 am 
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Location: Obamanation, unfortunately...
I have some potentially bad news: I can't stop listening to the first recording! :x

here is another copy of the sheet music:

http://icking-music-archive.org/ByCompo ... menti.html


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:22 am 
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pianolady wrote:
I have fermatas in my score, but I think I may hold slightly too long in some of the spots. As to the chords in bar 76, this is a weird thing. For a long time, I have played it is a single C-sharp followed by the two chords. But out of the blue, two days ago, I saw in my music, (same as the one I've always used) that it shows three chords. (I'm attaching a picture of this so you don't think I'm making it up). I did, however, see on the copy at sheet music archives, that it shows just the two chords. So I don't know...I played it one way for so long, and then I recently changed it, but I think I like to the old way better. I liked this piece until today, now I'm sick of it. But I'm going to sleep on it, and see if tomorrow I feel up to re-recording everything.

I would assume your score is right, and that the computer typeset thingy may have some errors.

You don't need to re-record this though, it's pretty good as it is - I just ventured some suggestions to make it even better. Let me know what you want with it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:21 am 
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juufa72 wrote:
I have some potentially bad news: I can't stop listening to the first recording! :x

here is another copy of the sheet music:

http://icking-music-archive.org/ByCompo ... menti.html


That looks like the same one. It shows the two chords.

Juufa, you may want to try some of these sonatinas. They are fun to play.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:26 am 
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techneut wrote:
Let me know what you want with it.

I'm still sleeping on it. :) (at least I should be. It's way too early)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:37 am 
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I enjoyed both recordings very much! Also expression wise, especially the rondo. Why rerecord? I would see no need!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:51 am 
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MindenBlues wrote:
Sometimes suggestions for improvement can also lead to the situation that the pride of a well done recording fades away a bit. I know that you did not meant it that way and you wrote that there is no need for a rerecording. Nevertheless a pricker remains. However since you found also something to niggle on Roberto Carnevals Mazurka interpretation (which quality is so unbelievable great that it stands out of critique in my opinion), it is of course up to the submitter how to treat such suggestions.

Well I think that is what critical feedback is all about.... Recognizing something is good and yet it can be improved in some small way or another. A recording artist should be able to take that without being dispirited. If all we ever say is 'great, wonderful, I like it' that is not really helpful, it it. Does one not always strive to do better ? I you think you can play piano reasonably well and you go to lessons with a real pro, first thing you hear is "That was good ! But ... ... ..." and then come all the remarks and suggestions.

In the case of Roberto that is different of course. As you say his recordings are beyond critique both technically and artisitically. But that does not mean we can't have different ideas about details of interpretation. That is not niggling in my book.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:56 am 
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Thanks Olaf. And Chris, I am not the least upset about your comments. Every suggestion from others gives us a chance to evaluate our performance fully, see if we do indeed agree with the suggestions or not. I wish more people around here would respond to these posted auditions.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:06 pm 
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techneut wrote:
Well I think that is what critical feedback is all about.... Recognizing something is good and yet it can be improved in some small way or another. A recording artist should be able to take that without being dispirited. If all we ever say is 'great, wonderful, I like it' that is not really helpful, it it. Does one not always strive to do better ? I you think you can play piano reasonably well and you go to lessons with a real pro, first thing you hear is "That was good ! But ... ... ..." and then come all the remarks and suggestions.

In the case of Roberto that is different of course. As you say his recordings are beyond critique both technically and artisitically. But that does not mean we can't have different ideas about details of interpretation. That is not niggling in my book.


O shit, I removed that part of my statement but you answered during the time I edited it...
I agree so far that critical feedback should be treated as something positive instead, that's after all what helps us to improve. That's why I removed those sentences, but it was too late :roll:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:09 pm 
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:lol: :lol:
You must be fast around here.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:13 pm 
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Well you know what they say .... "If you think before you speak, the other guy gets his joke in first" :P

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:56 pm 
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Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!! That's me screaming.
I am so damn frustrated. I've been trying to re-record the second movement and it's getting worse. Then I tried recording a Nocturne thinking it would calm me down, but it's not - it's going downhill too. I'm giving up for today and going shopping instead. You can go ahead and put up the original recordings. Also I found the mazurka 33/3. http://pianosociety.com/new/phpBB2/download.php?id=273.

I hope that worked and I didn't just send you off to outerspace. :) (See, I'm going off my rocker now. Better leave the house for awhile)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:22 am 
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Nice playing. Of course they are good enough to go up the site even though there are a details that can be improved. I played your recordings for the children at the breakfast table this morning and my daughter sang along :). I told her that they are pieces that a little older children than she is often learn and she went off to play scales ;). Thanks for encouraging her!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:31 pm 
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Techneut, either you didn't see my last post, or you really hate my playing. Whatever the case, I'm glad you didn't put up my clementi because I just re-recorded the Rondo section. If it's okay, you can put up the first movement from before and use this second Rondo recording.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:58 pm 
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pianolady wrote:
Techneut, either you didn't see my last post, or you really hate my playing. Whatever the case, I'm glad you didn't put up my clementi because I just re-recorded the Rondo section. If it's okay, you can put up the first movement from before and use this second Rondo recording.

Say, give me a break... I was going to put up that Mazurka, but did not have time until now. I'm working on it.

BTW - If I hate your playing I'll tell you.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:36 pm 
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Ok, they're up, as is the Mazurka. Please check for any possible mistakes. If you have a cover and/or text for the Sonatinas page I would be glad to use that.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:29 pm 
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Thank you.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:02 pm 
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I started brushing up another sonatina and remembered you asked about the cover of the book. I'm attaching it, but you may not want to use it because it has seen better days. Also, I had to block out the name that was written on top and you can maybe see that there's tape holding the book together. But look at the price. Can't beat that, huh? Anyway, here it is. You're better at erasing things than I am, so maybe you can fix it up. If not, then just throw it away.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:35 am 
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That's a fine image, thanks. I have updated the page with it :

http://pianosociety.com/cms/index.php?section=863

I like these covers that have seen some usage, it gives a bit of a personal touch. You did not have to block out the name, I could have erased that like I did the yellow marker stripes now.
Yeah, great price indeed. You can see some ridiculous prices too on the many covers I scanned from my collection. Good old days... But ok, now we have the Internet.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:00 pm 
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Ah the Sonatines. I used to love them when I played them. I recorded this Sonatine more than two years ago and it's probably one of my first recordings, but I lost it :( :( :( :( :( .

I enjoyed the recording! The smooth lines were good. I would only pay a little more attention to the articulation and play it a little more accurate on some spots and probably speed it up a little. Furthermore a very nice recording!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 2:03 pm 
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lol_nl wrote:
I would only pay a little more attention to the articulation and play it a little more accurate on some spots and probably speed it up a little.


Is that all? :lol:
I'm kidding, lol_nl. Thanks for listening. I appreciate every comment.

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