Piano Society
Free Classical Keyboard Recordings
It is currently Sat Dec 20, 2014 9:58 pm

All times are UTC - 1 hour




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Chopins water fall etude
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:38 am
Posts: 647
Location: Sydney, Australia
Hi guys, this is the best take out of my 35 takes over friday afternoon. I am tired.
I have choosen the slowest take as less slips occured and more artisic expression

And thank you for my two kids being very disciplined.

And yes, i have checked vs score.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:48 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9638
Location: Netherlands
Good lord, 35 takes. I can't even play this piece twice in a row without getting cramp in the arm... Must have been a grueling marathon. Only thing worse I can think of is having to listen to them all and pick out the best - I am so glad you did not submit all of them and let us choose :lol:

I'm not an expert on this piece but it sounds like you'll get there eventually. You're confident with it but all the same there are still a great deal of missed notes - especially the high notes that we all tend to miss. It's not too bad to go on the site I think - though personally I'd want to spend yet more time on it.

One thing - in the reprise of the opening theme, after the development, you miss out on a C in the LH. It's an octave in the first bar, then a C an octave higher in the next bar. Perhaps it's not in your score.

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:03 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:29 am
Posts: 692
Location: Germany
My respect for everyone who dares to play this etude!

You are already very far with this, and especially I like the accents in the right hand which shine through in the last page. It is surely not the easiest task to play the right hand evenly like the Pollini "robot", and for sure on that etude it is a years long endeavour for normal humans, but really, you are already very good on that! Nevertheless, since you are already that far, maybe you like to polish on the last percents, because it is worth.

_________________
Olaf Schmidt


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:13 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 6:27 pm
Posts: 1842
Location: Sweden
How on earth did you manage 35 takes of this etude on a single afternoon?!?! If I play this etude in full speed, then I can hardly play anything more serious in the next coming 10 minutes and even after this, not this etude again. I need at least an hour before I can give it another shot. I have many times played no.2 directly after and that is a killer. Feels wonderful when you enter no.3 ;). Terrible etude concert program Chopin put up. Huh!

There are several slips and at the end, one rather harsh. But you get most notes and almost all of the important top notes well. You seem to have read the score well and if you practise this one slow 1-2 times every day for another couple of months, I am pretty sure you get awarded. My advice is to be very patient with this etude. Myself spent 2 years of almost daily practise until I received what I wanted.

_________________
Pianist profile of Robert


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:55 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9638
Location: Netherlands
One thing I noticed on second hearing is that the very last note(s) of each bar seem to get swallowed, they don't sound and/or are cut short. One mistake often made here is to concentrate on the upward arpeggios, and neglect the downward ones. It is very important not to "tumble down" as it were, but to maintain the downward arpeggio with equal power, weight and accuracy. Not that I can do this myself BTW ... but it was a strong point my tacher made whan we had a stab at this piece last year. I thought I'd just pass it on. Overall you do a good job here.

The missing LH C that I mentioned should have sounded at 1:29 (don't have the bar number at hand).

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:38 am
Posts: 647
Location: Sydney, Australia
[quote="robert"]How on earth did you manage 35 takes of this etude on a single afternoon?!?! If I play this etude in full speed, then I can hardly play anything more serious in the next coming 10 min

well, to clear the mistry, i did this the same with op25/1. Play the first take, this colud be a complete or stop half way, due to mistakes. Once its done, I REST FOR 2M 30 to three m) exactly...i use to do weight training..... and repeat the scecond take. after about 3 takes....I go back to slow practice(4 minutes) and then go back to 90% full speed.

At the same time I check my arm(rh), normally its ok. Its only tensed up (like what Chris said) if PLAYED TOO FAST OR BEYOUND YOUR CURRENT ABILITY.---I have done it before. and slowed down. This continues,,,,,untill I start feeling bored--the emotional energy is running low(less than 60%) and I stop. My current capacity on each recording is around 2 to 2.5 hours at max.

at end of the session, I can pick which is the best one. Normally, the last 3 takes. You will find you will get better and better at end of the session(maturity point)---around 2 hour time.

This procedure is quite sickenning, but I can sure there are people out there are doing the same.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:38 am
Posts: 647
Location: Sydney, Australia
Chris, I just noticed that if you go under my profile on the site. and click on "etude" section and it showed up a "donation " icon of the piano society ???? but this does not happen with others??/

Is this intentional or technical error??? if so, it would not be a good for any of my friends or contacts looked on my site or even the piano society. From marketing point of view,,,,It would give "potential customers" a bad imagine or even myself, my friends or others may run away when they see that "donation icon"? Could you please investigate.

Thanks


Last edited by johnmar78 on Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:29 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9638
Location: Netherlands
Ooohh silly me... I created the subsection but forgot to put it the link to the Etudes page. It then automagically takes you to the home page with the donate button. I have fixed it right away, sorry about that. It is always good that people check their pages as we (I) goof up regularly.

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:38 am
Posts: 647
Location: Sydney, Australia
thanks Chris.

By the way, onething I must to add as from the "sports medicine magazine" used by the human movement students at the university. And its very useful and true--at least it WORKED for me.


One must feed with plently of carobonhydrate to keep your blood sugar level saturated, I mean really saturated--that your body is warm and pumped up. To do a LONG SESSION of recordings'

2-2.5 hours is max. This also due to depletion of sugar/energy in blood stream, before using the reserved "phospate" stored in the muscle. eg phospahte is another form of carbonhydrate.


Put into a common sense, dnt let your stomach empty when doing training, always leave 1/2 full 2 hours befre hand with mainly carbonhydrate/fat. Not too much MEAT.

I hope this helps.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:24 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8544
Johnmar, I don't have anything really useful to offer here. But you so kindly listen to my recordings and I like to reciprocate. I listened to this twice and agree that it could become smoother, somehow. Although, I don't know how any of you and the others can even get through this. I will never try it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:46 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:34 pm
Posts: 1278
I've heard you play this one better, John (that's not a bad thing). I'm hearing what I think is the result of overpractice. Thirty-five takes in a day is too much, IMO. That's 60-90 minutes of some very taxing playing! At this point, I'm willing to bet that your ears and fingers are desensitized. The problem this creates is quite the tyrant. Additional practice, no matter how concentrated, will only lead to increasing disarray. But don't panic! This condition happens to the best of us, from time to time and will dissapear on its own. What's important is to fix it as soon as it's recognized.

Here's my suggestion: Assassinate the tyrant!

Put this etude in storage; take a nice long break from it. When you decide to return to it, it will be completely refreshed . File it away and move on, for now. Don't worry about forgetting it; you won't.

Another possibility is to learn this (or any other) etude in a different key. May I suggest G major? That route is sure to re-sensitize!

Pierre


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:03 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 12:44 pm
Posts: 38
Location: San Jose, CA
Of all of Chopin's etudes, I think this is the one that takes the most training and concentration to play correctly -- in other words, I think it's one of the hardest, if not the hardest, of the bunch (even Horowitz refused to play this one publicly). Personally, I've been practicing this piece for about 6 months on and off, and have gotten to the point where I can play about the first half of it smoothly. I may finish it, but I find it so boring to play that I really don't have much motivation, especially when there is more interesting music out there to focus on.

Anyway, I can't really offer much insight on how to play this, other than the fact that you can't leave any tension in your hand as you go up and down these arpeggios, and that you should make sure every note is heard. You should also accentuate the top notes of each run and switch the pedal each time the harmony changes.

This is one of the few Chopin pieces that I find extremely unrewarding musically (it's pretty much a bore to listen to), but technically, it will teach you a lot. You're doing well but I think just a few more months of playing this will really help loosen up your performance. Make sure you practice SLOWLY, doing so will help teach your hands not to miss notes. Speed will come with time and it's important not to try and force it until you can play each arpeggio up and down without missing notes.

Also, I know you said you've checked it against the score, but there are some parts that don't match up. The last beat of measure 25 and the first of 26 are off. Measure 29 and 30 don't sound right either.

Other than that, you're coming along just fine. Just downshift a little bit and play slowly. It might bore you to tears, but it will improve your playing a lot.

Cheers.
-t


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:34 pm
Posts: 1278
Very good observations, toki. We've been down this line of discussion in the past several months. You might find help in reading all my and others' posts about this etude. Yes it is boring. But so worth it.

Pierre


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 6:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:38 am
Posts: 647
Location: Sydney, Australia
thank for all feed backs..yes its boring. This piece is my kids LESS favourite. Their favourite is op53.

I am working on something else. :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:25 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9638
Location: Netherlands
This one is up the site !

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group