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 Post subject: next book club reading
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 4:05 pm 
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The next book for the PS book club will be "Fingers" by William Sleater. Nathan has provided a synopsis which is this:

Eighteen-year-old Sam has always been jealous of his younger brother, Humphrey, the famous “wonder child” pianist. But now that Humphrey is fifteen, the one-time child prodigy isn’t able to get any more bookings. Sam’s mother refuses to accept that Humphrey’s career is over and devises a scheme to recapture his fame: Sam will compose “new works” by a long dead gypsy composer, and they will tell the world that the composer is dictating the music to Humphrey from the grave. The scheme is a wild success—until some ghostly occurrences convince Sam that the spirit of the dead composer has actually taken over Humphrey’s fingers. Have Sam and his family unleashed a force from beyond the grave?


The three of us, Andreas, Nathan and I read our first book club book together and it was very nice, because we often times went off on little side subjects and learned a bit more about each other. So it would be great if some more members would come along on this next book. We won't start until everyone has chimed in that wants to participate and has gotten a hold of the book.

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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 11:10 pm 
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Hi Monica,
I have looked for this book and I´m interested to go into the "next round" to read this book with you, Nathan and may be some other members.
The only problem is, that this book is not available as an e-book respective I didn´t find it in my search on the internet.
To buy it in the book-shop in Germany means to wait 2-4 weeks. It´s the same matter as with "The Pianoshop on the Left Bank". This novel I received nearly three weeks after I have ordered it in the book-shop. Fortunately I had also the e-book from beginning on. "Fingers" also isn´t available in Europe, but has to be shipped oversea.
I can order it by amazon with a high price for "priority shipping" it would cost me 35 Euro (I don´t know what this is in dollars), but it´s quite expensive for such a little book. The book costs only nearly 6 Euro, the rest is the fee of shipping.
I´m ready to invest that money, if you want to start straight away. Or I could order it for nearly 15 Euro by amazon and I would have to wait 8-16 days for the shipping. I think, this would be o.k. for me.
So, what do you think?

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Last edited by musicusblau on Sat May 09, 2009 11:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 11:12 pm 
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I say wait ... no rush. Mine isn't in yet either

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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 11:16 pm 
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O.k., I have ordered it here in Germany in my book-shop, because on amazon I would have to wait until fifth of june for the 15 Euro and here I just pay 5 Euro and have nearly to wait the same time!
I´m looking forward to read again with you both. I really like it!
So, we will start in the second or third week of june, I suppose, and then I think, I will need a month or so to read it like with the other book we have read. So, I can read it partly during my summer holdidays, when I will go to Holland (and visit Chris). That´s very good, because during my vacations I´ll have more time to read. :)

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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 1:17 pm 
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Ok, it's a date - we read in June. Looking forward to it. :D

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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 6:02 pm 
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I´m also looking forward to it. It only may happen, that we have to interupt, when I´m on holidays, because there I`ll have no internet. But that doesn´t matter IMO.

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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 6:21 pm 
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Today I got the message from my book-shop, that they will inform me as soon as they will have received the book. It´s the same procedure as with our last novel. I think, I will get it in three or four weeks.

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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 8:20 pm 
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That's ok, Andreas. I have another book I can read in the meantime. If you get any more notifications about when your book should arrive, please let me know so I can get to the library.

and btw - I am making a Youtube video of our Rachmaninov six-hands pieces. I'll let you know when it is done.

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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 9:05 pm 
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Pianolady wrote:
Quote:
and btw - I am making a Youtube video of our Rachmaninov six-hands pieces. I'll let you know when it is done.


Wow, that´s very interesting. Do you play all the parts alone? I still have thought, too, to make an experiment like this. May be I´ll make a video with a four-hand-piece and combine the primo- and the secondo-part, f.ex. by blending them over, making interesting transitions or to part the screen into two parts. I have many possibilities like this with my video-editing-program.

I´m attending your video with big curiosity! It´s a great pleasure to see you being active on youtube now, too.

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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 9:16 pm 
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Oh no - I don't mean I am making a 'new' video. Well, I am, but I am using our (you, Alfonso, and me) recording. But I probably should have asked you first. That was dumb of me. So...Andreas, can I use our recording to make a video? I will not use your or Alfonso's name, unless you let me.

And don't worry, I am only using art and photos for visual effects. The whole thing may turn out to be stupid, in which case I will just forget about the idea.

But....and now my wheels are turning again....it would be sort of neat if I did use photos or you, me, and Alfonso, wouldn't it? What do you think of that? Maybe you could both send me a whole-body photo of yourself and I can put all three of together with photoshop. What do you think of that idea? Is it stupid?

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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 5:40 am 
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Hi Monica,
that´s a splendid idea to make a video with our common recordings. I have made such "picture-experiments", too, on my youtube-channel (with countrysides and portaits of composers, in one case I added fotos of me, sitting at the piano).
I´ll send you some fotos of me, may be tomorrow, because today I have not much time.

Great idea, I´m looking forward to the video! And thank you very much.

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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 1:59 pm 
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Ok, Andreas. See if you can find a photo of yourself standing and also sitting down (not at the piano - I need face-forward shots). I'm not sure I will use the sitting or standing photo yet.

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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 6:58 pm 
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O.k., tomorrow I will make some actual fotos with my handy-camera (it´s a good one, it has 8Mpixel solution). First, I thought you to send some fotos of me sitting at the piano, which I already have. But now you say you want face-forward fotos sitting and standing. Now I´m still in my pyjama and it would not be so funny to publish them, at least from my view. :lol: So, you will have to wait until tomorrow in the evening.

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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 7:27 pm 
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I'll take the pajama photos too! :lol: (joking - but not really) (haha)

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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 6:30 pm 
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O.k., Monica, I have sent the fotos to you together with a download-link on rapidshare with a pm.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:01 pm 
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Yipiee, today I have received the novel "Fingers" by William Sleator. I think, I shall find some time to read at the weekend.
Are you ready to start, too, Monica and Nathan?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:44 pm 
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I just now called my library and put a hold on the book, so hopefully I can pick it up tomorrow.

How about you, Nathan? You ready?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:49 pm 
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Tis sitting on my bookshelf glaring at me at moment!!! Just let me know when we're ready!!!

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:36 am 
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I just got home from picking up the book. I'm ready to go! :D

Andreas, have you started reading? Maybe we can start posting on the first chapter this weekend?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:02 pm 
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I haven´t still begun to read, but I shall try to read the first chapter this weekend. I´m curious and looking forward to it.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:03 am 
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ok, i'll restrict myself to first chapter this weekend! .... i can't wait!

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"You see, my piano is for me what his ship is to a sailor; more indeed: it is my very self, my mother tongue, my life." - Franz Liszt


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:11 am 
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Eek, I already read it. I'll say something on Saturday or Sunday. (looks like a fun read!)

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:51 am 
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I have read the first half of chapter one (I took me nearly one hour). Today in the evening I´ll read the second half. Seems really to be a thrilling story. :D

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:06 pm 
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O.k., I have finished chapter one.
The whole family of Humphrey is in Italy, Venice. Luc is the father of Humphrey, but not of Sam. He seems to have an African father (there is said something of "african genes" at the end of the chapter). But I think, we don´t yet know the name of Sams father.
They develop the plan, that Sam has to compose a piece, which should be given out as a compostion of Laszlo Magyar, a Hungarian composer of the nineteenth century. They would say, that the ghost of the dead composer has dictated this piece to Humphrey. They would give him a sleeping-pill and he would wake up with the new composition by Sam.
I think, the dream of Humphrey at the end of chapter one is something like an anticipation of the further plot: Humphrey and Sam are together at a water and there is an mysterious third man. They all are happy. May be the third man is the ghost of L. Magyar? This question came into my mind.

Overall this novel seems to have an interesting and thrilling plot. I´m curious to read further. You, too, Monica and Nathan? What do you think about chapter one?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:49 am 
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That's right, we don't know the name of Sam's real father. Probably doesn't matter. And isn't that an outrageous plan? I can't wait to see if it works!

About that composer that they mention - I'm too tired to look it up now, but is he a real person? I almost think they are describing Liszt in a way.

And yes - who is he mysterious person in Humphrey's dream?

So far, I like this book.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 5:38 pm 
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Hi Monica,
so far as I could get some information Laszlo Magyar was a Hungarian explorer of Southwest-Africa.
Look here for some details, please:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A1szl%C3%B3_Magyar

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 7:47 pm 
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Hi Andreas,

I'm not sure that is the same person. That article mentions nothing about him being a composer or pianist. And other places on the internet that have this name actually refer to the book "Fingers". Maybe it's just a fictitious name.

Nathan - what do you think?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:12 pm 
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I think that the fictitious Magyar is modeled on the life/music of Liszt ... although, due to his enormous ouevre, no one is surprised when new music by Liszt is discovered or released.

In any case, I became obsessed with Liszt because of this book ... I'm going to start chapter one as soon as I finish here.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:03 pm 
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I have read chapter 2 today. :) There is said, that Magyar only wrote up to opus 26 and so Sam has written to his composition "op. 27, no. 1 by Magyar", but Liszt has written more than twenty-six works respective opus-numbers, so this aspect of the novel does not direct to the meaning of Magyar=Liszt. Until now only the apect, that the works of Magyar are described to be very virtuoso fits to Liszt, I think.
So, I´m not yet sure, what´s about this Magyar.
I find it to be mean, what Luc, Sam and Bridget do to Humphrey. But on the other side this poor guy is so naive somehow. Don´t you think so?
In chapter two the three have executed their plan and at the end Humphrey is sobbing and he seems to begin to believe in that ghost-story. Very mean, isn´t it?!

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:04 am 
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I read chapter 2 as well.

So, yes - the plan seems to be working so far. Poor Humphrey. He really is clueless.

I think we'll learn more about the 'fictional' Magyar as the story goes on. But what Nathan said about this book turning him on to Liszt is surely interesting!

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:33 pm 
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O.k., we´ll see what the other chapters bring concerning the turning of Magyar on to Liszt. I´m curious. Today I don´t find any time to read further. Tomorrow I can go on, I think.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:54 am 
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Oooohhh, Andreas - I just finished chapter 3, but I won't say anything yet. I don't want to spoil anything for you. Wait to you read the very end of it! If what I think just happened, then this is really getting interesting...

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:12 pm 
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O.k., thank you, Monica,
today in the evening I´ll try to read chapter 3 after having done my sports.
But if you like you can write something to chapter 3, too, of course.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:15 pm 
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I have finished chapter 3. Humphrey had had his concert. He played all unmusically except the piece of Sam, which is to be said the piece of Maygar, which his ghost dictated to Humphrey.
Prendelberg shows interest and at the end there are two paparazzis (not the pobst, who could also be called paparazzi for fun, isn´t it? :lol: In german papa=father), who will probably publish the story.
Two points are still quite mysterious for me: Magyar is said to have died in 1903, but wether the historic Laszlo Magyar nor Franz Liszt has died in this year. And at the end there is a mysterious old man, who says, that he has suggested the B-natural. It was Luc, who has corrected Sams composition at one place with that tone. Do you have any idea, what this means, Monica or Nathan?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:19 pm 
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Humphrey’s concert does sound like it was pretty bad. It is strange though that he made the fake piece sound good. Almost like he really was possessed by a piano-playing ghost. Which brings me to the point – I think the old mad at the end is really Magyar. I am not sure about that, but that is what popped into my mind. And Andreas – you are right about that corrected note that Luc made in Sam’s composition – what the old man said. I did not catch that, but verryyyy interesting, indeed.

And isn’t it funny how the author puts in those funny statements about like the chair squeaking in f-sharp major, or the car horn honking in b-flat, things like that.

Also, I’m almost certain that Magyar is not a real person but is what we call in English – a fictional character. The author has given Magyar some of the same qualities as Liszt, but that is as far as it goes. (at least I think)

Ok, on to chapter 4…. (Nathan, where are you?) (maybe you’re busy writing that Ponce bio? :wink:)

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:53 pm 
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Pianolady wrote:
Quote:
And Andreas – you are right about that corrected note that Luc made in Sam’s composition – what the old man said. I did not catch that, but verryyyy interesting, indeed.


Yes, I´m curious now, how the story goes on.

Quote:
And isn’t it funny how the author puts in those funny statements about like the chair squeaking in f-sharp major, or the car horn honking in b-flat, things like that.


Yes, I noticed these kind of motifs built in regularly, too, but in the first moment I find them to be unrealistic, because most of them were just noises, like squeaking and these things.
First I thought, that I have never heard "squeaking" something in a certain scale. But then I remembered, that some technical advices can produce real "tones", which always have overtones in opposite to noises, which have not an overtone-serie. (That´s the physical difference between a noise and a tone.)
F.ex. in school we have a copy-advice, which squeaks by producing two quite clear tones: d´´ and h´, so its a small third, a "cuckoo"-third. So, I think, its´really possible, that a chair-squeaking could produce a f-sharp-major-chord f.ex, but not a real scale, I suppose.

Quote:
Also, I’m almost certain that Magyar is not a real person but is what we call in English – a fictional character. The author has given Magyar some of the same qualities as Liszt, but that is as far as it goes. (at least I think)


That´s a possibility and seems to be a good idea from my view. Let us see, how it goes on.
I shall try to read chapter 4 this evening.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:06 pm 
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*posting from local library*

Well, I shut down my computer and evidently I have a bad hard drive because it never started up again!!! ... *sigh* I sometimes agree with my grandma who jokingly said that computers are the antichrist! hehe

Anyway, I think the Magyar is just fictional composer used for the purposes of the story. Maybe loosely based upon Liszt and/or an amalgam of several composers. Later in the book it describes Magyar as having a ridiculously high forehead with a great beak of a nose ... sounds like Liszt to me. I'm gonna try to restrict my comments to where you guys are in book ... not having internet forced me to read the whole book!! lol ... the devil made me do it, and that's the story I'm sticking to! :P

I feel sorry for Humphrey ... such a pitiful character. But mostly not his fault, just because of circumstances mostly it seems.

And I too was fascinated by the in-tune squeakings of everyday objects. I wonder what that must be like ... incredibly annoying I would think. Wait till u guys get to the next piece Sam writes ... I was rolling around on bed lol because of the sounds he was incorporating into the piece.

Anyway, glad you're enjoying the book.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:48 pm 
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Thank you, Nathan, for your interesting lines and your anticipation of the composers figure. But please, don´t do further foreshadows, because it decreases the tension (for me).
You seem to be a phenomenon in reading books fastly! I do admire you. Even if I do read german books, I´m not a fast reader, because I always pay attention so much on details, but may be you are able to do this and to read fastly, are you?

I´m through with chapter four:
The russian expert has made a visit to the family of Humphrey. Sam was send away for several reasons and Humphrey pretended, that he is the cat of the family. This statement gives an interesting point to the story, because in the moment he said this, I have really wondered, if he begins to look through the scheme. But at the end it came out, that he just wanted to help Sam, because he thought, that the test could be annoying for him, and he stays the same naive character as before.
At the end the agent of Humphrey, Geoffrey, has phoned to Bridget and he has arranged a concert first in Milan and later in Geneve. So, the family took the train to Milan and while they reached their their compartment, there was a new mysterious matter. They have found a package with a book, which has the title "The secret life of Laszlo Magyar". With this aspect of the plot the ulterior part of it continues, after the mysterious old man at the end of chapter 3. These two hazards could make the reader believe in ulterior coherences (of course, only if the reader believes in such things). I think, the narrator does contrive this weird (creepy) part of the action very cannily. Do you agree?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:01 am 
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Yes - now we are really wondering if Magyar is that old man! The author is surely doing a good job of building suspense. And I like that these chapters are short, don't you?

Can't wait to see how the next concerts go. On to chapter 5.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:33 pm 
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Yes, Monica, short chapters have a more motivating effect on me than long ones (especially, if they ar in English :lol: ), because one chapter can be quite easily done within one or two hours in the evening. I don´t know, if I shall find the time to read chapter 5 today, but tomorrow, on friday I shall find the time in every case, I think.
I like the novel and I´m motivated to read further.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:37 pm 
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Wow, chapter 5 was a quite long one, but very captivating. At first, Humphreys family goes to Milan by train and Sam reads the book about Laszlo Magyar. At this place we get to know much about the life of our mysterious Hungarian composer. Really a very strange guy and it would be interesting to compare with aspects of Liszts life, but I think there are many differences, isn´t it?
His deadly accident (to trip in front of a tram) is also quite odd IMO, but not impossible, of course, really weird is the fact, that his head is conserved and his two hands have vanished and nobody knows, what happened with them. The accident happened in a surburb of Düsseldorf. (BTW, in former times I have lived nearby Düsseldorf.) For me it´s interesting, that the places of the plot of our novel seem to be all in Europe and Russia (there is mentioned a nun in the Ural, isn´t it?) until now. Also in "The pianoshop on the left bank" most of the plot takes part in Europe, though both authors, William Sleator and Thad Carhart, are Americans. That´s a remarkable analogy, isn´t it?
The author of the strange biography of Laszlo Magyar - which is not only a biography, but it contains also a breakdown of each piece of Magyar - claims to be a descendant of Maygar. I suppose it´s the same odd old man, who did know about Lucs correction of the b flat, because in this chapter he knows about Lucs correction of the c-sharp-major-chord, which is clear an analogy. Probably he has put the book into the compartment. He always seems to be aware, even in the hotel in Milan, when Sam has to fetch some food for the family, Sam bumps into an old man, who he does not recognize, but who has a "peculiar medicinal smell", which was "faintly familiar" to Sam. I´m not so sure, to what refers this "medicinal smell". Is it a hint to the head of the dead Magyar, which is conserved in formaldehyde or did the old man in the previous chapters also have such a "medicinal smell"? I don´t remember, I have to admit.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:29 pm 
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I just finished the chapter 5 also.

Yes - some interesting things going on here. As to our comparing Magdar to Liszt - we know that Liszt was very much into gypsy music, so here is another similarity. I don't remember if Liszt was an illegitimate child (like Madgar) or not, but his own daughter (Cosima) either was considered illegitimate for a time because of Marie D''Agoult not being divorced yet, or maybe Cosima herself had an illiegitimate child with Wagner before she was divorced from, from, from....argh...can't remember his name now.

Anyway, that old man - Andreas, you may be on to something about saying that he is the author of that Magyar book. But in my weird way, I thought it was Magyar himself! Like the ghost Magyar. I dunno....I could be way off with this - your idea makes more sense. I guess we'll find out soon.

And you're right - that medicinal smell is something I don't remember reading about before, either. Hmmm...

But at the end - that C-sharp chord thing. What do you make of that? How would that old man know about Sam writing it, and Luc changing it? Only if he is a ghost, is what I'm thinking again. Boo! :lol:

On to chapter...

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:00 pm 
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Hans von Bulow! (I just remembered that name :lol:)

Chapter 6 – Sam is feeling pretty disturbed over seeing that old man again, but no one else seems to care about it. So after reading up on Magyars days with the gypsies, he almost throws the book away but changes his mind.

Now the family is in Geneva. Sam is unsure of his participating in the scam but continues doing his part of writing the scores. They drug Humphrey the usual way but his behavior at the end – what he says is shocking! How could he have known about that? (I’m not putting it into words here so as not to spoil it)

You ever play 20 questions, Andreas and Nathan? I remember playing it with my brother and sister when we were going on long car trips. It was something to pass the time, but I’m not crazy about the game, really.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:16 pm 
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Quote:
I don't remember if Liszt was an illegitimate child (like Madgar) or not, but his own daughter (Cosima) either was considered illegitimate for a time because of Marie D''Agoult not being divorced yet, or maybe Cosima herself had an illiegitimate child with Wagner before she was divorced from, from, from....argh...can't remember his name now.


Liszt was the legitimate child of Adam and Maria Anna Liszt, a born Lager. Cosima first married Hans von Bülow, a famous pianist and conductor, who first was a friend of Richard Wagner. Then Cosima fall in love with Wagner and he returned her love. The marriage with Hans v. Bülow was divorced and Cosima married Wagner in 1870 in Lucerne. First they lived in Tribschen (Lake Lucerne in Switzerland), later in Bayreuth. I have visited Wagners house in Tribschen as I was on holidays in Switzerland.

Quote:
at the end - that C-sharp chord thing. What do you make of that? How would that old man know about Sam writing it, and Luc changing it? Only if he is a ghost, is what I'm thinking again. Boo! :lol:


Yikes! Don´t affraight me!Image :lol:

Of course, you are right, these can only be ulterior incidents. But a real living person as what the old man is described in our novel can´t be a ghost, only something like a medium for a ghost. The old man could be such a medium IMO.

I have read chapter 6. Well, it seems as if the ghost of Magyar has begun to take possession also of Humphrey. Still in chapter 5 his reaction of the comic scene with the two witches was strange. But now at the end he seems to know something, which Sam had read before in the biography of Magyar. The two dried hands wrapped in old rags are exactly, what the hurted stranger had left "as a token of his appreciation" to Magyar and his mother, since they had nursed him to health.
The old man does not appear again in this chapter, but nevertheless this chapter is sinister, because of Humphreys weird behaviour and all the eldritch stories of the gypsy crone, which are told in the book of Magyar.
So for me there is raised up another question: has Humphrey read in the book about Magyar without that Sam knew it and does he play theatre? (Nothing is said about this in chapter 6, but he only can have get to know about the two hands wrapped in rags by reading in the biography of Magyar.) Or is Humphrey really obsessed by the ghost of Magyar?

What do you think?

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:36 pm 
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musicusblau wrote:
Liszt was the legitimate child of Adam and Maria Anna Liszt, a born Lager. Cosima first married Hans von Bülow, a famous pianist and conductor, who first was a friend of Richard Wagner. Then Cosima fall in love with Wagner and he returned her love. The marriage with Hans v. Bülow was divorced and Cosima married Wagner in 1870 in Lucerne. First they lived in Tribschen (Lake Lucerne in Switzerland), later in Bayreuth. I have visited Wagners house in Tribschen as I was on holidays in Switzerland.

But if I remember correctly, didn’t Cosima conceive a child with Wagner when she was still married to Bulow?

Quote:
Of course, you are right, these can only be ulterior incidents. But a real living person as what the old man is described in our novel can´t be a ghost, only something like a medium for a ghost. The old man could be such a medium IMO.

I suppose you are right – but I still have this funny feeling that the old man is really Magyar. Remember something in that biography that said the he did not age? That he still looked 25 years old when he was really 50, or something like that?

Quote:
The two dried hands wrapped in old rags are exactly, what the hurted stranger had left "as a token of his appreciation" to Magyar and his mother, since they had nursed him to health.

I’m a little confused – I did not read that the stranger in the biography left the two hands wrapped in the rags. I thought we did not know what was actually inside the rags. Maybe I missed that?

Quote:
What do you think?

I don’t think Humphrey read the book yet, and I do think this ghost business is for real. Maybe chapter 7 will shed some more light.

Speaking of that – I may not be able to read chapter 7 and comment about it until tomorrow night. I have 25 family members coming over today for dinner. It's Father's Day in the US today so I'm hosting the party.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:26 pm 
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Quote:
But if I remember correctly, didn’t Cosima conceive a child with Wagner when she was still married to Bulow?


Yes, that´s right. For a while she lived a "double relationship" (german: Doppelbeziehung) and she betrayed Bülow with Wagner. In 1865 she has give birth to Isolde. At this time she was still married with Hans von Bülow. 1867 she leaved v. Bülow and went with Wagner to Tribschen at the Lake Lucerne. In 1870 her marriage with v. Bülow was divorced and she married in the same year Richard Wagner in Lucerne. She meat Wagner 1862 in Wiesbaden-Biebrich (it´s nearby where I live) in the time he worked on his "Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg". In 1863 she and Wagner confessed her love. In summer 1864 she made a journey with her daughters into the Pallet´sches Landhaus am Starnberger See. In the same year they went to Munich (the whole family v. Bülow and Wagner), where Cosima became something like a "secretary" of Wagner and she won also the trust of Ludwig II. of Bayern, which was Wagners patron. Cosima became very old. She died in 1930 and became over 90 years old. (Wagner still died in 1883.) She still meat Adolf Hitler, who was a regular guest in the Villa Wahnfried. Winifred Wagner explained, that Hitler saw in the Wagners his "true family" and Cosima supported him, too.

I shall look, if the two hands where still mentioned in the gipsy-tale of the stranger. I´m not sure at this moment, too.
At wednesday we have our school-concert and before I have many things to do. May be I´ll find some time tomorrow in the evening for chapter 7. After wednesday I´ll have more time to read again.
See you later...

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:04 pm 
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On page 89 you can read, that "the stranger had left the rag-wrapped package as a token of his appreciation. Apparently Magyar always kept it with him. But the biographer, despite a long and obsessive search, could find no indication anywhere of what it was the rags contained."
So, in chapter 6 in the tale of the crone we don´t yet know, that there are two hands in the rags. So, indeed it´s very strange, that at the end of chapter 6 he knows about the two hands, since he even can´t have that information, if he would have read the biography of Magyar. But in chapter 7 Sam convinces as with several reasons, that Humphrey couldn´t have read the book.

Today in the morning I had a free lesson and I have read chapter 7:
Sams warnings to the family, that strange things are going on with Humphrey, are not successful. Sam wants to stop the whole cheating, but Bridget doesn´t want to stop it. So, she orders to continue. Humphreys career is getting a recovery and he arranges for a new concert in Vienne and at the end there is the old man again. And he tells us that "he has the hands". I suppose with "he" the old man means Humphrey. So, indeed it could be, that the old man is Magyar himself or a medium of the ghost of Magyar. BTW, the author of the biography of Magyar is described as a descendant of Magyar. It could also be the old man, isn´t it. So, at this point of the plot we have three possibilities of who the old man could be:
1. Maygar himself (like you said), 2. a medium of the ghost of Magyar and he could be also 3. the author of Magyars biography. If 3. is right, it´s in every case in combination either of 3. + 1. or 3. + 2., am I right? Or it´s only the first or the second possibility without 3.
What do you think? It´s really captivating at this point of the plot IMO, isn´t it?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:40 pm 
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I still think the old man is Magyar. But your idea of him being the author of the biography is good too. I have not read chapter 8 yet, but I hope to do so later today. Yes – this plot is captivating!!

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:09 am 
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Andreas - I wish you well at your school concert tomorrow! :)

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:35 am 
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Thank you, Monica, that´s very nice of you! Today at 19 o´clock it starts. Tomorrow I shall continue to read in our book (chapter 8 ) .

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